If you're honest, GOK, you'll concede -- here's conclusive proof you're wrong
Re: Re: To GOK re divinity, EV and Rawat -- godonlyknows Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Jim ®

10/26/2004, 19:34:50
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GOK,

I was looking over Rawat's Alta Loma Q & A session again ( http://www.ex-premie.org/papers/altaloma.htm  and found certain proof that your argument that "God" and "Lord" are two entirely different things and that Rawat used them that way as well is completely wrong.  Here, read this:

Guru is that practical thing that can say: 'Okay, come on!' Light has got no hands to use. That's why, because we have got no words to put him in a word, we say, 'Guru is the highest manifestation of God.'

Remember, Guru is God. Bigger than God. Bigger and bigger than God. They have said, 'Nobody in this world has been yet born who can describe about Him, who can describe about Him.' Such an easy technique to put our mind on -- can you think of an easier technique? The people who have got this Knowledge -- can they think of an easier technique than this to put out their minds, to control their minds? Can there be an easier technique? He made the easiest thing for them.

People took apple trees, took many fruits that God made them, into their possession. God says, 'Sow the seed, and the wheat will grow from rocks also. Sow the seed, and the wheat will grow from rocks also!' And there are many trees which grow from rocks, mountains. So merciful, so kind, so divine.

This mind tried to take us back into what we have done, back into so many techniques of errors, makes us feel more guilt. Satguru says -- shouts, not only says, shouts -- 'Don't follow our mind, don't follow our mind, don't follow our mind. Don't follow our mind! Give me your mind. Let me rule it, for I will take it into the right place of this world.' And He takes the mind, and takes us to the rightest place of this world. So if you want to give your devotion, if you have some devotion left, give it to the Guru. Give it to the Guru.

Guru is a new word for you actually, but remember, His work is ancient. Word is new because it has come from East, but do you know what is the value of Lord, what is the meaning of Lord? Everything! Lord. 'You are my Lord, you are my God, you are my Father, you are my Mother.' One has said, 'Twameva mata, chapita twameva' that 'You are my God; you are my Father. You are my God; you are my Father. You are my Mother; you are my Friend; you are my everything.' And if you want that family, seek into Him. He has given you friends, He has given you father, He has given you mother, He has given you so many things around. Something you have also to give to Him. Just a little, but almost equal to what He has given to you.

So there you have it.  First, Rawat explains that Guru is God.  Then he explains that Guru is Lord.  Clearly, he's mixing the terms up indiscriminately.  And clearly, when you say:

To me Maharaji never presented himself as "God". To me "God" and "Lord" are not the same.

you couldn't be more wrong. There's Rawat calling himself both and in such a way as to suggest that, for him at least, there's no difference at all.  Which, by the way, shouldn't be surprising.  Just check any dictionary.  Rawat's simply speaking English here.  

So where does this get us?  Recall that you've already admitted that Rawat "clearly implied" that he was the Lord.  Now you should do the decent thing and admit that he also at least "clearly implied" that he was God too.  In which case, you must ask yourself, why did you have such a hard time getting to this point.  Better, why does EV lie about this?  Better still, do you think Rawat is unaware of their lies?  That he hasn't at least seen and implicitly condoned those bullshit FAQs?

You are caught here, GOK.  But it's no trick.  You're caught by the truth.  Caught by the evidence.  Caught by logic.  You can be honest about it or not but that's the situation.







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