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Re: Wikipedia started as a hobby but I tend to gravitate to subject that I am emotionally in involved | |||
Re: Re: Wikipedia started as a hobby but I tend to gravitate to subject that I am emotionally in involved -- Andries | Top of thread | Forum |
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Andries, I don’t have any advice about whether you should or shouldn’t continue being a Wikipedian writer. That is your personal choice and decision. I mean, I feel personally insulted by the excessive skepticism of the testimonies of apostates. I admit though that testimonies of people who recently exed may be colored by a sense of betrayal. I dunno if "mind control" is a useful analytical tool to understand conversion and belief persistance in case of disconfirming events. Instead of making up your own euphemisms, you might try communicating with people using commonly used terms and conversational English. For example: "Belief persistance in case of disconfirming events" seems to be your euphemism for the theory of "cognitive dissonance," which is a long-standing psychological theory developed by Leon Festinger, who I believe coined the term. You can't expect people to understand you, Andries, if you redefine and rename concepts and theories, when the ones that already exist do the job very well. In essence, what you sometimes do is make people work unnecessarily hard to communicate with you when you do that. Another good example of why it’s often difficult to communicate with you, Andries, is apparent in your "Essay on Brainwashing." http://surrealist.org/betrayalofthespirit/brainwashing.html You write in the introduction: "The word brainwashed is a convenient way to characterize a deluded believer in SSB and I use it myself too but I don't believe in brainwashing. It is just intellectual laziness to use the term in my opinion. "Hereunder I try to explain what 'brainwashing' actually is. Thanks in advance for your comments." You state that you don’t believe in brainwashing, and that, in your opinion, even the use of the term "brainwashing" is intellectual laziness, but then you offer up what you think "brainwashing really is." In these first few sentences, you confuse the reader. I’m not going to attempt to analyze your essay, but you might consider doing a rewrite, perhaps to clarify any misconceptions within the article, and also to clarify what may be confusing statements due to English being your second language. I’m not bringing up your essay in an attempt to argue the issue of the use of the term brainwashing. SSB could sexually abuse Westerners because they believed him strongly to be God and well meaning. They were indoctrinated into the belief that SSB was raising their kundalini and helping with sexual problems in their own interest. It is different for Indians. That’s what I thought you meant, but I wanted to be sure. Your statement is absolutely incorrect. SSB abuses his followers because he is a serial pedophile. Period. It really has nothing to to with the SSB belief system either. And it has nothing to do with being Indian!!! I’m going to repeat this: That SSB sexually abused children in his cult has nothing to do with his nationality or the nationality of his victims, other than how SSB may have used the cultural differences to his advantage to exploit and abuse those children. SSB chooses to abuse (western kids) and that may be what his particular MO (modus operandi) is, but that doesn’t change the fact that he abuses serially. You don’t need to rationalize or try to figure out why SSB has done what he has done, either. But, even if you feel the need to understand why SSB does what he does, you'd be more informed by reading about the profile of a pedophile (not on Wikipedia). But, even if you do understand why he offends, that won’t change the fact that he is a serial sex offender, and your understanding of it may help you in some ways, but your understanding of it will never, ever excuse SSB’s behavior or change the fact about what he really is. Andries, it sounds as if you're still trying to apologize for your ex-guru and I hope you learn more about this, because, based on some things you say, you're very close to blaming the victims, too, and that’s not good. One of the things about you that surprises me (I've told you this before) is your lack of knowledge and understanding of the basics about sexual assault, rape, and child sexual abuse. The reason that I'm astonished is because you were in a cult that has a pedophile, a serial sex offender, as it's leader. Because you offer yourself as an expert on the subject of cults, and especially because you have a website about your former cult, that tries to inform former SSB cult members, as well as the public, it is vital that you get up to speed on this subject. There is ample information at your disposal about this subject, both in books and on the internet. I'm going to take the time to try to explain these issues, and then you are on your own, because frankly, I don't like the subject. It’s off-topic here, except as it relates to the sex offenses committed within the Rawat cult specifically. Andries, it’s really your personal responsibility to educate yourself about this topic if you plan to continue your website and correspond with survivors of SSB’s sexual abuse. Rape and sexual assault/abuse is not about sex. It’s about power and control that an offender uses to assault his victim(s). Rape, and sexual assault/abuse is never the fault of the victim for any reason. There also is no need to rationalize why these things happen or even try to understand the motives or MO (modus operandi) of an offender. It is always the offender's fault when a rape or other sexual assault/abuse takes place. The only exception to this is when there is a third party who knowingly and willfully colluded with the sex offender to aid the offender in the commission their crime(s). THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS to this AND NO EXCUSES for the sex offender's act. . Statistically, sex offenders are overwhelmingly male, at around 97%. Rape and sexual assault or any other kind of sexual exploitation does not differ from one country to another, or from culture to culture. All sexual offenders fit the same basic profile(s) and their offenses/crimes have little to do with whether they happen to also be a cult leader. A sex offender who is also a cult leader will exploit their position of power by virture of the added power and control they have over their followers. But, being a cult leader doesn't change much about the fact that they are an offender, although when someone is abused within the context of a cult, I believe it makes the abuse much worse on the victim, especially for children. When a sex offender is also a cult leader, they do abuse/offend, by exploiting the added power and control they have over their followers (and their follower's children) in order to seduce and attack their prey. And sex offenders DO willfully prey on their victims. What offenders do is calculated, willful, and cunning, and they know what they are doing is wrong, that's why they always try to hide it. No matter where a sex offender lives and regardless of their cultural background, the fact is that they all do the same thing and it's always wrong, and never the fault of the victim. In SSB’s case, it’s not the fault of the parents, either, unless they willfully and knowingly colluded with SSB in his abuse of their kids. SSB may use his self-styled belief system (that he convinces others to believe so that they worship him and more) but it doesn't make him any more or less of a pedophile or a serial sex offender. That is true by any standard in the world, according to my research. Again, it's not "different in India!" And "Kundalini" has nothing to do with it either. I cannot emphasize that enough. This subject is not open to debate, by the way, because I'm the one informing you, based upon years of experience and study, not the opposite. I'm not going to discuss this subject with you again. I also ask that you use great consideration and sensitivity in the future when the subject of sexual abuse/assault within the Rawat cult comes up on this forum, and ask that you honor that boundary for the sake of any sexual abuse victims from the Rawat cult who read this forum or post here. Btw, it’s not appropriate to ask someone about the graphic details of their assault/abuse (especially if you’re asking in order to somehow "prove" the assault/abuse took place). Unless a victim is willing to communicate with someone about it as a matter of trust a person may have, it is simply no one else’s business. To ask someone about details is much too intrusive. It's not your job to prove that an offense took place. It’s the business of the victim, police and prosecutors of a given jurisdiction, and their therapist or trusted friends and family. When people volunteer the information well, that’s different because it’s their choice, but still the listener must use great sensitivity when communicating with victims of crime. It is such a personal and private matter, therefore, to ever ask and expect a victim to discuss the graphic details is asking way too much of them. When someone does offer the details, it’s important to be very sensitive to the pain and suffering a victim may be feeling, and to understand that they may have enormous problems trusting people, as a direct result of what happened to them, and to honor them for the courage it took them to tell about their abuse. The following are definitions of rape and sexual assault based on a website I found recently and these are pretty much the basic definitions used around the world, including the United Nations, which has made suggestions in their proclamations to countries around the world. The only difference in the definitions of various kinds of sexual assault and rape are how they are defined BY LAW in various jurisdictions. The laws that exist in various countries (and in the U.S., the various states) don't change, and have no bearing upon these basic definitions of rape and sexual assault in terms of it being right and wrong. It's always wrong. Also, on this website I found a link to a Netherlands sexual assault hotline, so I have to assume they also endorse these definitions, although I didn’t contact them. I’ve also provided a link below to a website that originates from the Netherlands titled: International Victimology Website http://www.victimology.nl/ What is rape? What is sexual assault? RAPE is forced sexual intercourse, including both psychological coercion and physical force. Forced sexual intercourse means vaginal, anal or oral penetration by the offender(s). This category includes incidents where the penetration is from a foreign object such as a bottle. This definition includes attempted rapes, male and female victims, and heterosexual and homosexual rape. SEXUAL ASSAULT includes a wide range of victimizations, distinct from rape or attempted rape. These crimes include completed or attempted attacks generally involving unwanted sexual contact between the victim and offender. Sexual assaults may or may not involve force and include such things as grabbing or fondling. Sexual assault also includes verbal threats. These definitions are the same ones used by the US Department of Justice's annual National Crime Victimization Survey, the most comprehensive study of the incidence of rape. Modified by Cynthia at Sun, Mar 13, 2005, 04:22:49 |
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