I’m not really sure where to start, so I’ll just jump in. I have been interested in this post by Paddy and the previous thread where he was ‘defending’ himself from others regarding the issue of who is happy and who is not. I have been thinking about it all day. I have several observations. Paddy, like me, was a premie for a long time (me 30 years). I received K in 1975. I walked out of an event in May 03, stopped meditating in August 03 and finally made the big decision two months ago. After that I started reading EPO. It appears (and correct me if I’m wrong) that many of the regular posters here left a long time ago, maybe in the 80s after the ashrams closed and a few in the 90s. I also think there is a distinct difference between those who were in the ashram during the infamous ashram only meetings when M told everyone to leave family and friends, etc. I think it was incredibly more damaging to a person to have been subjected to that, in that era. So more to be angry about and more aware of the dangers of the closer one was to the ‘inside.’ I think if I had not moved out of the ashram two weeks before the private ashrams meetings started, and had been subjected to those rules, I would have been more psychologically harmed.

As it was, I ended up getting pregnant, and raising a child alone for 20 years, but still ‘practicing.’ I know the feeling of putting my life on ‘hold’ for the next program, etc. But here’s the thing. Happiness is a subjective thing that cannot be measured. So I don’t think this argument can use statistics to determine who is and who is not happier, the P or the ExP. But I think that there are different demographics of Ps and of ExPs that have uniquely different experiences. Those of us who were not damaged by ashrams, or being an X-rated premie, or being subjected to the verbal abuse of a ‘team’ meeting or ‘training’ session may seem to ‘soft’ on premies to others. I have the same experience as Paddy. Lots of premie friends who ‘have a life,” don’t socialize with premies, only see them at the occasional video event or big event a few times a year and to most purposes lead lives that look like everyone else. They are all 25-30 year premie veterans who have 'grown up' and function fine in the world at large. I love some of these people dearly. They are fun, eccentric etc. They just have a religion they don’t realize is a cult or a religion. I don’t judge them, just like I don’t judge others in the rest of humanity who have chosen one of many, many groups to affiliate with to get their needs met for community, spirit, support, etc. Almost everyone I know has something like that and they all have parts that I don’t believe in (Christianity, all religions, political groups, new age stuff, the school PTA, the sports team, the guys at the neighborhood bar, on and on).

So anyway, you have these different demographics of Ex’s too. My limited observation is, so far, that the premies who left a long time ago, who were involved in the ashrams, etc, seem much more critical of premies. Seem to have an agenda in responding to posts that picks apart any sentence that even seems to be nice in any way about a premie or cuts any slack to them. This bothers me. It makes me feel hesitant to post, like I am going to be jumped on or my words scrutinized to pieces. It is not always welcoming. To be fair it is sometimes fun and informational and interesting as well. And of course the information on the rest of EPO is totally invaluable to anyone like me coming out.

One more thing. There were always those premies who were good at propagation, who were sneakily manipulative when talking to anyone. They always were on the lookout, like a shark, for an opening to “give satsang.” I hated that and never did it, although felt pressure to. I am not a salesperson. To be honest I sometimes feel that same thing here. That there is an agenda to make sure everyone ends up thinking the same thing about Rawat and Knowledge…that it is all evil, that everyone was manipulated into the cult, trapped and victimized.

Ok, I know I will get in trouble for this but part of my process of healing and removing myself from this cult, from all dysfunctional relationships in other areas of my life, is to recognize that I am not a victim. That I chose to be there. Somehow there was something in me that was susceptible to that kind of programming and if I wasn’t into Rawat, it would have happened somewhere else. Until I recognized and fixed that, and healed that, as the Greeks would say, “tragic flaw,” in me, nothing would change.

So to me, personally, my so-called happiness in the larger sense comes from feeling free, like I can say anything I want, believe anything I want and speak from my heart and from my current understanding. And knowing that if I feel judged for that, and not welcome, I have the freedom to leave. I am hoping that the environment here on EPO can be welcoming and supportive of all the different demographics of ex P’s in whatever stage they are in, an atmosphere of openness to hearing someone else’s story and honoring it for where they are in the process.

One thing that has me musing about all this is that a dear friend (not a premie) suddenly died unexpectedly on Saturday. It has affected me more than I thought it would. She was very special in that there were no outward indicators of her happiness as have been posted here…she worked at JC  Penney’s as a sales person, lived in an apartment with her blue collar worker husband and two little white dogs, smoked, drank, and cussed. But everyone around her felt special after spending an hour or two with her. She was amazing in that she gave everyone attention, respect and accepted them just the way they were at any particular time…with all our imperfections. She was a light that only the lucky ones got to see. I didn’t necessarily believe in the same spiritual world view as her, but it really didn’t matter. I really miss her.