Much as you say I paint being a premie in a bad light, actually, I think you'll find I stay away from the whole concept of whether premies are happy or unhappy, because I frankly don't know, and it's all subjective, isn't it?  I can only speak for myself, and there is a very dark side to that, yes, and from what I have read many people who leave the cult feel the same way, although they didn't express that, or perhaps appear to anyone else to be unhappy or stuck, or stifled, or wasting their time, when they were premies.

But even that isn't black and white. I've also tried to emphasize how much many of the other premies meant to me, what I learned from them, and the fact that I had a number of very close, happy relationships that exist to this day.

Where I think you get caught up, Paddy, and maybe it's because you never were completely indoctrinated, is that even if you aren't having a good time in the cult, you usually can't leave because of M's phobia indoctrination (bad things will happen), or if you believe the ideology, then bad things are just your mind, a test, or something to make you grow.

But see, Paddy, the reason this is significant is that I didn't even realize how miserable I was as a premie until I had something to compare it to (life after the cult), and until I could use my brain to evaluate it objectively, meaning it was okay to experience doubt, to test "knowledge" and to question what I was really feeling.

That's not to say I was always miserable even under that criteria because I wasn't.  I had many happy times as a premie, and I had the group high and the "bliss" and I got off on singing Arti to my lord and throwing myself on the floor in prostration -- sometimes all of that felt good, but I consider that all beside the point.

It's a very insidious thing.  But I have said many times, that if someone is happy being a premie, I have no objection to them continuing in doing so, although I thnk they would be better off if they considered all sides of what they are in, and not limit themselves only to what the cult says. 

I have always considered EPO to be mostly about helping people get out who aren't happy (and I think there are many), who stay out of fear or psychological bondage.  (And for "interested people" to have some basis to evaluate the cult before they get involved.)  If there are any premies who are indeed blissed out much of the time (true, I don't believe that is the case), none of this discussion would even make any sense, would it?

And if people are just having to do minimal things to be a premie, and it's kind of like a religion, and just no big deal, and sort of, well, nice, then I don't object to that either, but also, I think they are entitled to full disclosure as well, because I think the Rawat ideology is inherently counterproductive to human growth.