Hi John,

Interesting discussion, is it physical or spiritual?  Or both?  Neither?

We experience the world around us as experiences in consciousness (through senses, internal feelings, emotions, cognition, etc.)  But empirically (from the outside looking in’) there is physical movement, biomechanics going on, neurons firing away, neural connections made, neurotransmitters exchanging at the synapses, etc, etc.  The empirics and the experience are really two sides of the same coin, inseparable.  One side of the coin is ‘subjective / internal’ and the other ‘objective / physical’.  The physical empirics frequently get an edge in our evaluations in that they are measurable (like brain waves); but does measurable data necessarily undermine the legitimacy and meaning of the 'subjective' side of experience?

Because changes in consciousness also register as physical changes, and vice versa, how does the chicken and egg argument play out with each?  Is it fair to reduce ‘mind’ to ‘brain’?  Energy to matter?

For the most part, I don’t particularly like the word ‘spirit’ along with it’s variations (probably a cultural thing for me in response to bad religion).  For me, the word ‘spirit’ invokes dissociation from legitimate experience, however subjective.  Kind of like “there is ‘spirit’ in me, and it is sort of really me, and we like experience ‘it’ when we die, and like it is something that is a part of me, but it really is me, but I can’t really describe it”, etc, etc. 

I don’t mind trafficking in the terms ‘consciousness’ and ‘awareness’, though.  Personal preference.

I think the word ‘meditation’ kind of sucks too, inasmuch as it is used to mean so many divergent things.  For example, I practiced the ‘Knowledge’ meditation techniques for many years, and now I continue to ‘meditate’, but with a completely different method (having had to actually deprogram myself away from the ‘Knowledge’ techniques towards enabling a deeper internal experience).  ‘Meditation’ is way too general to encompass the available practices that fall under its jurisdiction.

My own experience is that my 'meditation' practice is a great enhancement, tool and portal for me.

I am curious about studies that showed meditators suffering from 'increased dissociation’.  Can you provide some references for this?

best, Mike

BTW, how's life on the farm?