Re: dissociation vs differentiation...
Re: Re: dissociation vs differentiation -- Mike Roark Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Cynthia ®

01/10/2005, 07:28:08
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I first want to be clear that when I talk about meditation, I only refer to Rawat's brand of meditation.  I've never explored any others.  Also, I'm not a professional psychologist.

 

‘Dissociation’ covers a lot of ground, while the professionals seem to be focused with the more extreme pathological forms of dissociation created by trauma. 

 

That's because professional academics and clinicians are still trying to figure out how dissociation occurs.  There are many polarized views on dissociation and the MPD/DID diagnosis. Unfortunately, those of us who have been diagnosed by qualified professionals get caught in the cross-hairs of the academic arguments. 

 

I do find it very hard to buy into the extent of your concerns about meditation practice and dissociation, though I absolutely admit there are individuals that probably require other kinds of internal work before meditation would be of value for them.  In fact, the fear of sitting in quiet awareness of oneself may be an experience of extreme dissociation.  Also, I am very skeptical about the ability of psychologists and psychiatrists to depict the model of ideal mental health, however comforting it is to be within the womb of popular wisdom.

 

It's good to be skeptical.  I don't look at meditation as something of value and I certainly didn't go through ten years of psychotherapy so I could practice meditation -- especially the Rawat meditation -- without dissociating.  I wouldn't describe psychotherapy as "internal work," either.  I would call it therapy.

 

In order to remove the societal stigmas associated with any mental/emotional illnesses/disorders, it's so important to use the correct, established terms when talking about them.  That's why I titled my post "no need to reinvent the wheel."  For instance, a while back someone here used the word "terminal depression" to describe a friend that's suffering from clinical or chronic depression.  There's no such thing as "terminal depression."   There's no need (or reason) to make up new terms to describe established labels or diagnoses.  Just as one wouldn't make up new names for cancer or any other medical/physical ailment, the words used to describe mental illness are well-established.   I don't know what you are talking about when you say "differentiation."  There isn't any real "normal," however, as with any or illness or disease, there has to be a starting point to describe a disorder.  Having said that, dissociation occurs on a spectrum from normal to abnormal, i.e., when a person dissociates to a degree that it creates functionality problems -- that's not normal and (probably) requires medical attention. 

 

I totally agree that the Maharaji culture breeds dissociation on a large scale (as I now understand dissociation).  But I think that comes more from the culture and ideology of Knowledge when combined with the related practice of meditation.  In the M culture, some facts are totally disparate from the reality.  For example, the dynamics created when Premies continue to totally buy into the mythology of M as only, living Satguru, while attending his ‘inspirational teaching’ programs.  The examples of dissociation are endless in that culture, but I think the most harmful and insidious disconnect may be that: Maharaji is a necessary intermediary to become more deeply aware of our own essential selves!  How dissociative is that?  Remember that the path of ‘Knowledge’ has never been presented as solely a path of meditation; it is a path of guru, ‘satsang’, ‘service’ and ‘meditation’.  If we have subliminally tied that world to the exploration of our own, it can certainly take some work to undo the damage.

 

Yeah, lying in the cult is the norm.  I would use the term "cognitive dissonance" rather than dissociation as you used it above.  I wouldn't say the cult breeds dissociation, but it indeed breeds cognitive dissonance.  Dissociation can happen in individuals who meditate excessively, while already having a tendency towards dissociation.  But, it can also happen to people who pray, chant, or speak in tongues excessively. 

 

I would say the cult practices coercive persuasion and recruits people deceptively and the result can be an adherence to a belief-system that is inherently false based on pathological lying, both by Prem Rawat himself and his followers.  The basis of the cult religion is that Rawat has some magical power to impart something called "Knowledge" that's presented in a vague and enticing way to an aspirant or "interested newcomer" and deception is used to lure people in, using their vulnerabilites to exploit them.  That's not dissociation.  Simply put, it's a con-job. 

 

My experience posting and reading on this forum for so many years is that there is extensive damage done by Rawat to some people, often related to their level of involvement, time spend in the cult, level of abuse suffered, closeness and time spent near Rawat, and vulnerability to the beliefs.  It takes some people a long, long time to recover from the damage done and that's why I have no problem calling it a destructive personality cult.  The meditation is only part of it, as you said. Following Rawat is an all-encompassing belief-system, and for those of us who got involved early on, it can take years to recover.

 

For me, it became absolutely critical for me to recognize (differentiate) the positive aspects of what I had experienced / learned while practicing Knowledge from the bullshit.  That way I could start to integrate the valuable stuff and leave the irrelevant behind.

 

I suppose one can find something good in having spent a long time in a cult.  Live and learn?  Lost time and opportunities?  Lost youth?  Necessary for everyone to look for good in the cult experience?  I don't know.  I don't place much value on any of the time I spent in the cult because of all of the lost time, delay in my personal recovery (that had been on hold) that subsequently took years.  I did get an intensive course on the "impeccability requirement" from my time in Florida -- add that to my resume??? 

 

I had what I would characterize as good experiences while I followed Rawat, then again, I believed I knew who the Lord of the Universe was!  So, there you go.  And I had been seeing light in my head from early childhood so technically speaking I never needed to be revealed anything.  In fact, I distinctly remember after my K session telling premies that I had already been seeing "that light," and they didn't want to hear about it.  LOL!

 

Having said that, I simply don't see any in good anyone being a member of a cult,  ever. 

 

Best to you too,

Cynthia






Modified by Cynthia at Mon, Jan 10, 2005, 07:58:07

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