Well, not exactly.....
Re: Re: To Joe -- Mike Finch Top of thread Forum
Posted by:
Joe ®

04/19/2005, 16:55:03
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My main point was to confront an attitude that I see occasionally on this Forum: that the cult was the product of Maharaji and a small group of PAMs/high-fliers/inner-circle premies; and that the rank-and-file, who did not really want any part of the cult baggage, were inveigled into it by these PAMs. That I reject. The rank-and-file were as much a part of it as any high-flier;

I think it's more complicated than that.  If you are talking about the Joan Apters or the Charanands, or Rennie Davis, I disagree to some extent.  I think those people got a certain high or whatever in reinforcing those things we believed as premies, partly because they felt they would personally benefit, and/or they got a high out of doing it.  This is really different than many other premies who had little or no influence and many of the same people who never even really recruited others or laid that kind of stuff on other premies.  So, I think there is somewhat of a difference.  Many of those people didn't just fill those roles because they saw it as selfless service to the Lord.  No, I think they did much of it for personal gain, and so to an extent more than the rank and file, have more responsibility, and so although all members ultimately support the one who is ultimately responsible, it isn't really quite the same, is it?.

If you were a premie, that means you thought Maharaji was the Lord, or at least God-like, you wanted to dedicate and surrender your life to him, to receive that grace, get out of your mind, find your heart, and get taken where He (upper case 'H') wanted to take you. If you did not feel that, or something very similar, you were not a premie as I understand the term.

Well sure, that's a pretty good definition as far as it goes, but none of us was ever really completely selfless or focused only on that, and to the extent people have/had ambition in the cult, to climb the social ladder, or be a saint, or whatever, there was a lot else going on.  People don't get into Glen's position, or Charanand's position without a certain level of personal promotion and willingness to do things to impress whoever needed to be impressed, manipulating people, including whipping up the rank and file even though he or she didn't completely believe it himself or herself.

True, even the rank and file contributed to an extent, but it's hardly the same, is it?  I think you are kind of throwing everyone into the same pot when I don't think that really works.  Like I said elsewhere, people who weren't willing to play the game didn't really rise in the cult, although there may be exceptions.  Those who did, got, usually, very compromised, and they made choices to do that.  Some people didn't, nowithstanding their beliefs in who Maharaji was.  And those who are willing to publicly lie,  especially now, well, that's their choice.  They don't have to do that to be a premie.  It's really a different level that has more damaging effect.

That having been said, in the end Rawat is responsible, and you can't just blame PAMs for getting  people to join, or be fanatics, but there is still blame there as well, to some extent.  I really think that the PAMs, many times, were really no different than many who rise in other institutions, one big difference being that in the Rawat cult, one didn't have to worry about getting stepped on going back down, and most of the premies were indoctrinated to accept whatever happened as lila, or a lesson from the Lord, or a test, or as an opportunity to surrender.  Hence, care for people as people was completely unnecessary.  However, I do think that within the cult, personal friendships were often an exception.






Modified by Joe at Tue, Apr 19, 2005, 17:00:14

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