I would like to thank you " practising premie " for your interesting and often clear response. It is so nice to be able to communicate ( at last) on this forum with a premie who seems to be sincerely trying to find some kind of balanced argument and is neither mocking nor deliberately dishonest. A big THANKYOU for that.

I wonder why you don't directly post here ? My experience is that the Moderators are reliable and trustworthy when it comes to preserving any personal details....which,in fact, would only be your email address ,which does not have to include your name . I can understand that the prospect may be too daunting as there is always the possibility that even a reasoning and reasonable premie like yourself may be roughed up a little by some of the less sensitive veterans here. Pity. There is also the situation which I have never totally understood , where premies are treated as " guests " here which ,in practice, seems to mean that they are more easily ( and IMO sometimes unfairly ) ejected. I can understand that not everyone has Sanford's dogged resilience ! I should also like to endorse that we are NOT a group. I knew nobody when I first started posting a few months ago. I am my own independent self and I really do try to keep in touch with my own integrity and to learn from other contributors posts without feeling I necessarily have to agree with them , no matter how forcefully or repetitively they make their points of view.

Anyway, to get back to your argument...I started to have problems around here :-

"You see, to accept him as 'Lord of the Universe' was easy. One simply gave up any responsibility for one's own life, dreams or  thought processes. "

Easy ??? or Simple ??? ....."giving up responsibility for one's own life"...

This is what Guru Maharaj Ji called " Surrender". This was the most horrible decision I ever had to take. Independent me. Always did my own thing. Always thought my own thoughts.Went where I wanted and did what I wanted. After horrendous and ghastly mental-agonising ,I bought the whole f****ing trip. Surrender !!! That horrible word ! For me that was the cause of nearly all the pain and confusion. In my life I had always had to fight and be determined, and I couldn't get my head round " surrender ". I tried to and it made me  literally ill. Physically ill and mentally ill. Feisty me suddenly having to suppress my thoughts and true personality. UGH ! Excuse me while I vomit...and grieve for the vibrant nineteen year old that I was when that First premie dripped me that poisonous " SATSANG"........

I had loads more problems with that paragraph too , practising premie ,but I have to take a break as I suddenly feel full of rage about what happened.......

 "One simply gave up any responsibility for one's own life, dreams or  thought ..."   That's what you wrote practising premie.....read it again ...

...what implications did " Surrender" have in your life? .....How far does denial go ??

I will try to continue this post later. Please don't think, practising  premie, that I am attacking you. I am simply trying to make sense of it  all and ,as you said ,find some kind of closure.