I agree with both Anth and 13 and on reflection I see that their combined points make a good one-line defenition of my own position since exiting cultthink city. Thanks Anth and 13 and this forum.

[Note for Reporter: Its not all hate around here. It sometimes awakens stuff. .Premies are never (in their own estimation) among their peers They are always carrying M's mesianic torch for him and the future of mankind: very un-awakening that] anyway...

Anth says that when you strip away all the dogma all you're left with is the sensation of the four techniques. True for me..

13 says that the whole K thing lacks any coherent philosophical underpinnining. Very true and carefully kept that way out of self preservation by the top man, on the pretext of "respect for the sacred", "sanctity of the individual" , "ineffability of the spirit" etc etc bolox bolox. 

So I connect AJW and13's points and I say that the sensations of the four techniques can be given rational context. They can be considered within the contexts of the disciplines of  the philosophy of cognition, the psychology of religion, and also the philosophy of religion.The main one I think is the first, the philosophy of cognition, a significant part of which is a subject which interests me, called epistemology-how things become "known".

I now see that combining  "techniquial"(!) experience with clear thinking has actually been what I've been trying to do for the last five years! And fair enough too, I mean who wants to chuck away everything after 25 years under the blanket.

 I can report too that  it can be done. After all, a blast of the divine light is as much a human sensation as a slap over the head with a wet kipper,  is it not? One is surely entititled to reflect on ones differing relationships to both experiences? Do they infact differ? If so how?etc etc.There are answers too, and they leave Prem and his platitudes way way behind. Begrudging credit to him I suppose for lesson one though, but after that  he helped himself to much much more of me  than he was intitled to... by far. Ugh..Yes yes we all know, my responsibility etc etc .

Anyway thats wot I am up to now  in my way, post devotionland.

Love

Bryn