Now don't go getting your feelings hurt. Everybody is not going to agree with your methods all of the time, especially here. My every sentence is challenged here, and it is good for me. It usually doesn't change the way I feel, but I'm open to looking at things through other people's eyes and experiences. You think I've given up my religious freedom, for example. Now I don't know how you pulled that one out of the hat, but I'm willing to give it some consideration. (Though I haven't been religious since I was about 10 years old in catholic school - that will cure you of religion forever.) Reinforcing the "all premies are brainwashed" statement may get you brownie points with some of the folks here, but you haven't really met many premies to make that judgement. Alot of people on this forum have said that they still have friends and acquaintances who are still in "the cult" to some extent and I don't think they think of ALL of them as brainwashed. Or I bet they don't lash out at them every time they see them. (This is only speculation.) People here seem to be pretty reasonable and can respect premies as human beings at whatever stage they are in, exiting or not. My understanding is that some premies as well as elan vital have tried to publicly discredit people here in order to protect M, and that is what their anger is about. I have friends who are premies, and they completely understand the feelings and concerns of the ex-premies, and share many of the same concerns, and see alot of inconsistancy themselves. But leaving can be a long process for some, and M is given the benefit of the doubt in many circumstances.