About the bigger picture, there do seem to be quite some fanatics among Trump supporters and the Q-Anon people specifically. While I am completely with you, this becomes politics though and thus can get heated very quickly.

I think the problem is more the use of the word cult. What does the word start to mean? Groups we don't like? Trump supporters would probably argue that Democrats are in a cult.

But what humans will pledge their loyalty to, give up their personal autonomy for and get worked up about to the point of violence is stunning. 

I don't think that Trump sets himself as a cult leader in the same way as someone like Rawat does though. It is more that he knows how to press certain buttons and people project onto him a solution to their fears and frustrations. But somehow too easy really to just call it a cult. People make choices.

I guess I have heard people saying that they felt duped by the movement around Trump, especially leading up to the Capital riots. Complicated.

Rawat is a cult leader who was never the incarnation of God or Lord of the Universe

There is a rather strong difference between believing that Trump should be re-elected and believing anything that Rawat says.

No, Jim. We're not going to discuss anything together here.

And I really regret that we were once 'friends'.

You seem to have forgotten that you doxxed me here and that is unforgivable.

As a target of premies, I've had my employers contacted in efforts to have me fired and lose my job and my livelihood.

And I certainly don't want to get doxxed by you again and your really crazy Trump cult buddies take notice of me.

Jim, you're still in a cult. Your thinking and obsessions are cult-like whether it's Maharaji at one time, or your whole Anti-Muslim crusade and now your love of the orange clown, Trump.

Adios and have fun acting like a total idiot here again.

However, I am not going to join the cult of people who believe Trumpism is not a cult and attack those in the cult of people who believe Trumpism is a cult.

That's certainly a shame about your ex-wife but I don't think I can reasonably blame that on her extra years of involvement in the Rawati$m cult so I'll leave her off the Prem Rawat Bio site.

And there were lots of articles saying he is infusing Christianity into the way he preaches to the crowd.  That there are plenty of people who believe God wants him to rule on Earth.

Not quite sure what it does to the word cult but let's not forget the conspiracy theorists who believe, well I've heard one say Trump has been sent by God.  At one stage they were so pro Trump, now they are still pro but quieter on the topic so I think that's a brand strengthening exercise, and Trump will soon want them back on board trumpeting his Glory.

My 1964 edition of the Concise Oxford Dictionary has added to the 1950 definition with 'devotion or homage to person or thing (esp derogatory of transient fad)'

I remember that attitude in our parent's generation - everything was a fad that wasn't C of E.

and goodness the latin base, along with cultivate it's - inhabit till worship.  sounds like a bit of earth worship going on here.

Let's leave the word cult out of this, I like it too much now.

The 1950 edition had "devotion or homage to person or thing"  but not (esp derogatory of transient fad)

Also revisionism is in full speed ahead for Trump.  The convicted Jan 6 participants are being referred to by Trump and his sycophants as hostages.  I saw the riot unfold from beginning to end on TV including the condemnations by all senior Republican leaders.  This revisionism that has been adopted by Trump and his supporters reminds me of Rawat’s denial of his Lord of the universe days and its acceptance by the premies.

I don’t think Trump started out as a cult leader.  I don’t think he was one in2016 when he ran for president.  I didn’t even think about it then when I voted for him

But he has been evolving into a cult leader in my opinion.  I don’t think all of his voters are cult members.  I would say that the 25 percent of Republicans that say they would vote for him even if he is convicted of multiple felonies are certainly exhibiting cult like loyalty.

These observations and many others lead me to point out the similarities of Trump and Rawat.  Furthermore, I have actually met and spent time with both Rawat and Trump.

The susceptibility of human beings to cult or cult like behavior is interesting to me in light of the fact that I was trapped in it myself for so many years.

They say they will vote for him despite any convictions because they believe the accusations are false and based on political chicanery. It would be a cult if they believed he was guilty of a crime. I have no convictions in this myself, its purely interest in the beliefs and the different vocabulary.

A little bit culty? A lotta bit culty? But I would urge- take it to the non Rawat thing.

This article highlights some of the major problems with King James version of the bible. It was in large part political. Read the section on witches. King James had a special hatred of witches. A Hebrew word for chemists/poisoners was mis translated to witches. How many innocent herbalists were murdered due to that one word!

Trump adding the US Constitution and the US pledge of allegiance to "his" Bible further raises my hackles as the rise of Christian Racist fascists nationalism takes an increasingly large segment of the GOP. It is, IMO,  clearly acting as a cult. Look up the idealized superhero images being generated by the MAGA cult. The red hats, gold sneakers and now Trump endorsed Bibles have gotten me frightened and thinking about updating my US Passport. 

There is a fevered sickness in this country. Look, I have respect for conservative thought that is not twisted by oligarch money, religion or racism. I will say that having been a cult member has helped me recognize tRump as a cult leader of much more frightening proportions!

I have a lot of thoughts about Trump, and I myself, find him terrifying, and I think he has many qualities of a cult leader, and many of his followers treat him as a cult leader. Steven Hassan wrote the Cult of Trump. Did you know that a former premie debated Steve Hassan about it?

https://freedomofmind.com/jim-heller-and-steven-hassan-debate-the-cult-of-trump/

That aside...

I think not all people who support Trump treat him as a cult leader. I think its way more complex. Some of the single issue voters support him because he supports their issue... lots of reasons that I may really have trouble comprehending. I do admire the conservatives who reject Trump though, even if I disagree with the issue that they are devoted to, just as I have liberals who don't just lockstep give a pass to the misbehaviors of people who also support their policies. I can't stand hypocrisy and I notice when people put principle and ethics above self interest.  

I think social media has played a huge role in creating the us vs them mentality. I miss a world where people can debate ideas and maintain a human connection. It's gotten so much worse. Still, I have lost or decided to not interact with people who try to "convert" me to Trump. That, is cult like. But others, I can interact with fine and respect if neither one of us is trying to "save" the other.  I guess, it depends? 

With premies, I could buy the people at the very fringes of it, who don't get very involved, maybe are not cult members, but maybe not really possible. You have to ignore a LOT and from what I understand, to get Knowledge and the premie only type events it's still very much about Prem Rawat and still a lot of Master and crap. You would have to be SOOO far at periphery and ignorant, dabbling in it, to not be in a cult.

Trump? Obviously, Q anon and most if not all of Jan 6 insurrectionists is cult, IMO. But not all who vote for him are fanatics, and I don't know how the draw the line so clearly. 

I think though, on the forum, the topic while having overlap, can destroy the discussion. On Susiewasapremie, some folks with very different political leanings than mine have been incredibly helpful and kind, so that's been a lesson, and maybe a little hopeful for me. That people can still treat each other respectfully, and see this very differently. Some, not all. 

I agree with you Swimming Free about who is the bigger danger to the world. And I agree it's never been more important to understand cults. 

I just have noted lately that it's not entirely analogous.

On the other hand, cult "hopping" is a very real phenomenon. 

On the Facebook "Critical discussion about Prem Rawat" we decided to make it against the rules to talk about Trump, vaccines, health cures, politics generally.  But someone, actually with a very different view from me, more than one really, made points about how her views on politics were her, drip, even if she didn't use the word.  So the comment seemed so relevant. 

It's just hard. Life is one big "it depends"... but also, sometimes, we have to stand up. And we may be surprised by who stands beside us?

How I recall it

You replied by saying something along the lines of “your silly Jagdeo problem and not that much happened to you anyway”

Below the belt. You knew damn well I every single time said I was lucky because I basically got away compared to the other victims. You knew how unbelievably mean it was to say that to me.

You apologized. Well. No excuses. But hard to comprehend what your goal was but to hurt me. I was warned.

Second time- appeal to our old friendship. So I gave you another chance. I told you and told you I didn’t want to talk about politics or Trump. You just would not stop. As I recall, seeing my reference to people who won’t stop, and guess what I hate it when liberals won’t stop either, and rightfully thinking I meant you ( among other people) … your text ended with “f*** you” or was it “f*** off”

I am not friends with people who treat me like this.

Leave me alone. Please.

But fine. I won’t. 

So, I guess unless you really want more proof, you will have to just believe me. 

But now I'm not surprised, I just went and checked and see there is an election coming up in the States so I expect it has become very intense.  wishing your country lots of good luck.

I think JHB made it clear, he understands why people make comparisons, without agreeing or disagreeing with the conclusions they draw. 

I don't myself believe he needs to delete the whole thread. But if he did I would get it too. It didn't get that bad. But the potential to derail the Forum is so great with the topic that I think it's a great rule. I was just happy to see a post from you, and I have made posts in past like that, the Venn diagram I posted awhile ago, but I have come to really agree that it's just not good for the Forum to discuss him. As John said, there are plenty of other places to do that.

And this is a rare place where info about Prem Rawat can be discussed, and I would hate to have it spammed with how heated the other topic gets. 

(if this it technically possible, that is)

I lived in the South for 39 years. I lived near Asheville, NC, a very liberal, artsy small mountain city. As the rise of the violent Right progressed, I saw a big change. I lived outside the city and it is an entirely different culture. I began seeing Confederate flags everywhere and Trump flags and bumper stickers and signs all over. Giant trucks with giant flags, men in grocery store with guns on their hips and scowling faces.

A year ago next week I got rid of all my possessions, except my cat and what I could fit into my car, and moved to Philadelphia PA. Philly has gotten a lot of press on Fox news as being a crime city. I am careful about what neighborhoods I go to, but I feel safer here than in the red neck South! Maybe it is just me, but I love living in a multicultural neighborhood. 

Check out the work of Greg Palast. He has videos on YouTube. He has done extensive work on researching GOP voter suppression in Georgia and Florida and how the GOP is using this as a model nationwide. 

Thom Hartmann has a great radio show of FREE SPEECH TV at Noon EST M-F. freespeechtv.org. 

Also, check out PROJECT 2025! It is the Fundamentals plan to take over society.

Karen K

In a word, yes. I an very careful what neighborhoods I walk in in Philadelphia. I don't walk after dark, but I never did in Asheville either. What I am referring to is living in Waynesville, 30 miles West of Asheville, a small town, not feeling safe in grocery stores where visibly angry armed red necks were glaring at everyone as they shopped for groceries. The rural and small towns in the Mountains have a long history of being rebels. When Mom and Dad moved to Asheville in the 1980's, they were warned not to go to Madison County, "Bloody Madison" as they would be shot at as being "Revenurers." In exploring back roads outside Waynesville alone, I would feel I was in the film Deliverance. There are small remote communities like Sodom Laurel in Madison Co, where it was historically so isolated there was a fair amount of incest! I remember another remote community where the folks there all had these narrow "possum" faces. I tell you, it is another world. 

And EVERYONE has a shotgun! BTW,  Deliverance was filmed near where I lived. I met this really sweet man that had a booth at Uncle Bill's Flea Market. He was telling me how much he missed his late wife, while petting his pet squirrel. I noticed an old poster of the Deliverance. He was in that poster, the guy with no teeth that was chasing Bert Reynolds and buddies. Cowboy Coward was a local star. I would see him at the grocery store, in a wheel chair, with his pet squirrel! Sadly he was killed in a car crash last year.

Much of the Mountain Southern Appalachian culture goes back hundreds of years. I owned a women's fitness center. I was reading Cold Mountain and began to ask how many of these women were related to the main character? About half of them had In man's in their family tree. The locals go back at least 150 years or more. I really loved those women, but they would only let you get but so close. 

https://avlwatchdog.org/41929-2/

BTW, I have a Jewish last name. I was raised Unitarian, but my Dad's family was Jewish. The rise in antisemitism in the US is frightening and living in a culture where there is a Southern Baptist church on every corner where preachers scream hatred , bigotry and End Times every Sunday makes my hair stand on end! In Philadelphia, no one blinks an eye at the name Kirschbaum! I never have anyone tell me, "I wouldn't even try to pronounce your last name!" 

Asheville lost its charm for me and the rents rival San Francisco! Nothing I could afford. The small towns always made me feel like an outsider. It is pretty sad.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mtg-space-lasers/

Not just the lefties.

What is not trivial is that first Obama and now Biden have allowed Iran to threaten to destroy Israel and Biden freeing up billions for Tehran gave them the wherewithal to fund October 7th. The most vocal antisemites in the Dems get no pushback in the media or the party. 

I guess Biden shared one common goal with the Muslim radicals in Iran and throughout the world -- none of them were happy about the Abrahamic Accord.