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It's April writing camp so that's my excuse for making this post. I came across this quote yesterday -
'women can be divided into two camps, castrators and love slaves.'
it's wonderfully stark isn't it. Puts the cat amongst the pigeons though doesn't it, I mean it's not really something you can go around saying and yet he got published saying it, and it's quoted there in Wikipedia, what do people think, is it just because he's a famous writer or does it have the ring of truth and I am wondering what you all might think about it.
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Saying that was likely pretty shocking in the 1920's, though not for the same reasons the wokestapo wouldn't like it now.
It's a crass observation made for effect, so not worthy of consideration.
I last read a Hemingway novel about 50 yrs ago, but I still remember the way he used the word 'and'.......in every feckin sentence it was.... and this, and that, and he said, and she said, and they went, and they came, and they did, and they didn't, and on and on until finally I thought.....this guy is a crap writer.
Just my 2 pennyworth which you might like to introduce into the conversation around your writer's camp fire when the flames burn low & the embers glow.
Here's another take on the relationship between the sexes which his explanation leaves out. This one I would say is common experience, my own once or twice, but thankfully all a very long time ago, so buried beneath the reality of family life. In any case what about the women who are castrators & love slaves both. That's the devil's combination that no man can resist.
You'll notice I hope, that there is only one 'and' in the above paragraph. 
Related link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InnGwmtisZE
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Mick Jagger, ah I'm still giggling, that was a funny bit of footage - I don't think I'm going to take his word for it that it was the woman was so cold since reading about him and David Bowie.
I tried to read a Hemingway novel, maybe The old man and the sea or something like that, anyway I was young and I didn't manage to get into it let alone finish it or notice all the ands, I'll take your word for it, maybe he is a crap writer and that's why I couldn't read his book but I will say I just read an article on him which ends up with him being lauded as a great writer - so many people say that.
Crap or great writer, not sure it is a crass observation, wondering if it is real.
Sounds like his mother inflicted some mortal wounds on him, fairly intense stuff including insisting on dressing him as a girl the same as his sister. She is described as having a 'very strong personality like Gertrude Stein'.
I have not lost my liking for black and white, I believe it has a tried and true place in our thinking. so I was taken by the straightforwardness of it. and thinking that from a man's perspective that might be the experience.
The castrator who can perform like a love slave is still fitting into one of the two camps isn't she, despite the attraction.
okay 4 'and's in my post plus an extra one from Hemingway's book title. 
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You may be interested in watching Ken Burns's new 3 part Public Broadcasting documentary - a biography of Ernest Hemingway, assuming it's available outside the US. It premiered last week and is available on their website. His documentaries are always well-researched and in-depth. The NYT and LA Times seemed to like the documentary, although the LA Times review focussed on the journalist's view that Hemingway was not a good writer. I haven't seen the film yet, and only remember the struggle involved with reading Hemingway in a high school English class, during a time when I was much more enamored with utopian literature. https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/hemingway/
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thanks yes no the link didn't work but I think this is enough isn't it - all three of us have struggled to read Hemingway, plus that journalist saying he's not a good writer.
And then there's the ands.
I think I'm just going to guess that he's one of those writers who became popular because of writing about the gay world at a time when it wasn't written about because at this point I would have to read a book of his to have a more informed opinion.
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It defines women in solely in terms of their relationship to men. As such it offers no insight into women but says everything about the person saying it. Which brings us to context and who said it. Was it a character in one of his novels? In this case it may well serve a good purpose.
But I just looked it up and as far as I can tell, it is a quote of some critic describing Hemmingway's portrayal of women. That is a totally different context and not what you said in your post. It also rings true in that sense. The last time I read Hemmingway phones had rotary dials, but I remember him being very male focussed in his writing.
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I got it off the Wikipedia page about Hemingway. I might have misread their article, I was skimming a bit - It makes more sense to me that it would have been written by someone making a criticism of his writing. It would be unusual, which is why it caught my eye, that it be said, even through a character in a book.
I saw that quote as an expression of Hemingways' experience with women rather than being contemptuous or defining women as if by a god on high.
I took it as him saying I can divide the women I slept with into two camps by the impact they had on me.
When I read it it made me laugh and wonder if it is true. Hence my post. I know it is the sort of conversation that should be kept for round campfires but all I got there was another Hemingway quote - all first drafts are shit - though now we are talking about goats and rabbits.
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That is just such a weird thing to say. For a man to say that suggests a serious problem with their own masculinity and self-esteem in general. It reminds me of my father who told me on occasion that it was emasculating for his wife to work. This from a guy who managed to lose almost all of the ample inheritance he received from his parents within 10 years so that my mother had to get a job at a local fitness center to feed the family while he regurgitated in self pity.
Needless to say they divorced shortly after. His new wife now spends her life taking care of him like a servant without pay. There is of course a word for that. And also needless to say Hemingway was one of his heroes.
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yes isn't it unusual. and it's such a stark contrast - love slave and castrator - it's both terms that are so interesting. It's so extreme.
I have tried doing the same - all the men I have slept with can be divided into two camps... but I met my ex when I was 19 I simply do not have the experience.
but my lack of experience did not stop me from instantly thinking aha, he is talking about sexual orientation. That magnetically attracted or repulsed element.
It's interesting how our parent's generation was so enamoured of Hemingway's masculinity. The quote I remember hearing some years ago was him saying that writing was to sit at the typewriter and bleed through his fingertips.
From the bit of reading I have done I think it likely his mother was gay. And using pure imagination I wonder if he was straight but married a gay woman and that is what led to a son that went from Gregory to Gloria.
see what I mean about that quote - it really does set the cat among the pigeons. and that's before we even get to the love slave part!
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