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Trump never said that everyone on either side was "fine". So your complaint makes no sense.
And just as readily, one could point to some very unfine people amongst the leftist crowd. So what?
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These Richard Spencer neo-nazis are scumbags, Jim. Plain and simple. These guys are your belief buddies?
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I don't think Jim understands that he is giving the okey dokey to White Supremacists.
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I was making the point that your post suggests that Trump must think that Richard Spencer is a fine person but that misrepresents what Trump said which Karen has now put up. Trump's right. There were good and bad people on both sides. A lot of good people were protesting the removal. A lot of bad people were for it. Trump was right.
Modified by Jim at Sun, Oct 22, 2017, 19:42:51
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Have fun with all of your new friends.
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Jim, you said, "A lot of good people were protesting the removal", right?
Do you mean the ones chanting:
"Blood and Soil"
-and-
"Jews will not replace us"
There were no good people marching with tiki torches and chanting that shit.
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First, the chant was actually "You will not replace us" not "Jews". But whatever. I'm not defending the white racialists. I'm only saying that they weren't the only ones there defending keeping Lee's statue and a lot of the people advocating its removal were unsavoury leftist and black racialists themselves.
Anyway, all this racist crap is bullshit. Read this:
Modified by Jim at Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 01:16:59
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Here's a real hero being interviewed by a real fake racist:
<a href="https://pamelageller.com/2017/10/gavin-geller.html/">https://pamelageller.com/2017/10/gavin-geller.html/</a>
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No, Jim, at one point they were saying "Jews won't replace us". I think it was some kind of inside joke for them.
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That might be so. Someone might have riffed on the rhyme which is as bad as it's senseless. Look, I just went to Auschwitz a month ago. My family died there. You don't have to convince me that anti-Semitism is a blight on humanity and that to the extent that anyone sympathizes or advances it, they're deplorable. But that doesn't mean that everyone there was so inclined. Lots of people are opposed to the current PC goal of rooting out perceived deep racism with an eternal cleansing program. That's why I urge you to read the Macdonald article. Did you?
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On the one hand we got the blight of anti-semitism and on the other hand we got the mind-numbing PC 'eternal cleansing program'. Balancing extremisms.
Modified by lesley at Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 13:50:24
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You can't expect people who share an ideology to take responsibility for extremists in their midst can you?
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http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-lashes-alt-left-charlottesville-fine-people-sides/story?id=49235032
Asked about his immediate response Saturday, Trump quickly blamed both sides for the conflict, adding that there were "very fine people" among both the protesters — which included white supremacists and white nationalists — and the counterprotesters. "I think there is blame on both sides. You look at both sides. I think there is blame on both sides," Trump said today. "You had some very bad people in that group. You also had some very fine people on both sides," he added.
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I'm all for free speech, but It seems to be a matter of public safety ,when the UK and dozens of other countries want to keep these guys out. They incite violence, and as we see regularly now, terrorist acts.
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Extremists on both sides just give each other what they want.
Julia Ebner argues that far right and Islamist extremist narratives – "The West is at war with Islam" and "Muslims are at war with the West" - complement each other perfectly, making the two extremes rhetorical allies and building a spiralling torrent of hatred - The Rage.
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OMG that's so stupid!!!! Hahahaha - so funny. Yes, for sure. We were at war with the Nazis and the Nazis were at war with us. Hahahaha! Good one, John. Made my morning. Where can I get that book? It sounds very insightful.
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You can 'Look inside' and read the first 20 pages or so. It'll make your day Jim.
Aha, adding a link doesn't work!
Oh well....
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rage-Vicious-Islamist-Far-Right-Extremism-ebook/dp/B0746HD6R6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1508775965&sr=8-1&keywords=the+rage
Modified by 13 at Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 11:29:11
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This is why Britain is committing suicide. When brave, knowledgeable experts like Robert Spencer who risk their lives trying to warn the public about the risk of Islam are considered as dangerous as the Muslims who want to destroy us, there's no hope.
Good for you, John. Good for you.
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I'm only grazing through her bullshit preface before court starts up here but I noticed that she lies and claims that Omar Mateen, who shot up the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, boasting about his allegiance to ISIS to the 9/11 operator, was wrongly characterized an Islamic extremist when really he was "motivated by right-wing ideology". Oh wow. What a nasty, foolish woman! What mischief! What stupidity! I mean there's more. Much, much more but suffice to say that she's a prime example of exactly why BRITAIN IS DEAD.
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Your government blocks, intimidates or even imprisons people who tell the truth and funds and relies upon fools like this? This is madness. Can't you see this? Really, forget about me. Leave me out of it. Surely, you have enough respect for John and Pat to have some pause on this issue. Because they're with me on this. And either we're ALL wrong .... or ....?
Modified by Jim at Mon, Oct 23, 2017, 17:54:37
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Leftists apologists for Islam are a dime-a-dozen of course but we're talking about this one because she's the one you've offered as an expert. It really is breathtaking how perverse these people are:
<a href="https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/05/quilliam-foundation-smears-robert-spencer-and-pamela-geller-as-alt-right-leaders">https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/05/quilliam-foundation-smears-robert-spencer-and-pamela-geller-as-alt-right-leaders</a>
Sadly, you don't care about the truth enough to even read this. Perhaps someone will.
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Despite the fact that imam after imam in Canada are exposed calling for the death of the Jews, this idiot at the commie rag, the Toronto Star, tries to explain it all away as some kind of cute, fumbly little mistake:
<a href="https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/10/22/a-toronto-imam-was-accused-of-hate-preaching-against-jews-but-that-wasnt-the-whole-story.html">https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/10/22/a-toronto-imam-was-accused-of-hate-preaching-against-jews-but-that-wasnt-the-whole-story.html</a>
This is evil. When teenagers bully other teenagers online intentionally or at least recklessly provoke them to commit suicide, we denounce their ugly behaviour and only cut them some slack, if any, because of their immaturity. They weren't thinking. How can you expect kids to consider the consequences of their actions?
But what's the excuse here when adult professionals fight to obscure the truth and stigmatize the people who risk their safety to try to warn us all? I know Jonathan Halevi. He's a friend of mine. He's soft-spoken, serious and extremely committed brilliant, honest and courageous. And this silly, duplicitous lefty hack and her horrid newspaper try to assassinate his character for telling the truth, the god-dammed, simple, mother-fucking truth. God, this makes me angry!
Like I said, again and again imams and other Muslims in Canada, like America, like Europe, like anywhere on the planet, espouse the exact same threats against Jews relying upon the exact same authoritative Islamic texts. And acting on those imperatives, many Muslims attack and sometimes kill Jews. This is so evil it makes me sick.
Fortunately, Canada isn't as lost to PC tyranny as Britain though but perhaps it's just a matter of time.
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Is someone who hasn't drunk the same Koolaid as you so reprehensible to you that you read what you like into what they say??
There are only two references to Omar Mateen in the part of the book available. The first reference:
"Hundreds of families were still mourning the victims killed four days earlier in the deadliest mass shooting in US history, committed by Islamist extremist Omar Mateen"
So no, absolutely, the author is not saying he was motivated by right wing ideology. Couldn't be clearer.
In the second reference she is talking about how quickly people are branded Muslim terrorist compared to how rarely and how slowly people are described as motivated by right wing ideology. She is comparing the reporting of the terrorism of Anders Brevik (where he was simply described as a murderer and killer, despite his right wing ideology and his racism) with the reporting of the terrorism of Omar Mateen.
On this, she has a point. Your pal Katie Hopkins and Nigel Farage were far too quick to condemn the terrorist that ploughed his car into pedestrians recently, and your man Tommy Robinson was there making a video about the atrocity. The police had to get rid of him. It was a traffic accident.
The author of this book has spent years getting undercover with extremists both Muslim and right wing nut jobs. That takes some courage, which you appear to admire. And yet you are so willing to call her nasty, foolish, mischievous and stupid and scream that Britain is dead, on account of an obvious misreading and jumping to insane conclusions.
You're wrong! Logically wrong. Nastily wrong. Foolishly wrong. Mischievously wrong. Stupidly wrong. You're a prime example of why the apoplectic shouty brigade needs to calm down and get some perspective.
Are the rest of your responses to this thread even worth reading?
Modified by 13 at Tue, Oct 24, 2017, 02:13:30
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You're right. I misread that. I have no problem admitting it because unlike you I'm interested in the truth, not running from it. I said that I just grazed over that in a moment before court started and obviously missed her juxtaposition. But still, she's an idiot. A total fool. Playing the same game you do.
And what game is that? The very one you're playing now, looking for excuses to deny the obvious. Here I've made a mistake. People do. It's inevitable. But because you don't want to really see how Islam is destroying your country, anymore than this foolish girl, you use any mistake as an excuse to look no further.
You did that with Jihad Watch. And that, by the way, is merely my accepting your exaggerated claim that JW got a swimming pool segregation story wrong as there were apparently one or two infidel women joining with the Muslims in their campaign. I can't remember the details but we can always find it again. Still, I'll concede for argument's sake that Spencer may have gotten something wrong there. No one's perfect. Indeed, I'm amazed at how little he ever gets wrong at all given the enormous work he generates. But for you that was enough. You'd found your excuse to disregard anything and everything he's ever said or written, anything he's ever reported and even now supporting this fool who calls his site a "right-wing extremist site". You lap it up because you are always looking for excuses to avoid the truth.
As for their supposed big, fat mistake, Robinson, Hopkins and Farage, what of it? First, I don't accept for a moment that the police are necessarily telling the truth about what actually happened there and whether or not it was accidental. I've seen enough obscuring of even the most obvious Islamic terror attacks by your government to make me wonder if this might not be an incident with scant or ambiguous evidence that's being downplayed.
But say it isn't and their initial responses were wrong. So what? It's human nature to generalize and urgent situations precipitate fast, immediate suspicions and tentative speculations. That's a good thing. What's bad is when we don't deal with developing data honestly. In that case, assuming that the police are being honest, say, and it wasn't a motivated attack, it sure as hell looked like one and anyone in their right mind would be forgiven for thinking it so even if they stood to be corrected. Again, because you hide from the truth about Islam, you impose an unreasonable standard of perfect knowledge on anyone whose voice you're desperate to ignore.
As for when and how terrorism is the appropriate description and when it applies, this idiot author's thesis is facile. Islamic terrorism is that because it's part of an ideological plot to terrorize. Read the Koran -- OH NO YOU WON'T -- but pretending for a second that you would, that you weren't hiding from the truth, you'd see that readily enough.
Here's one more excellent little thing for you to ignore:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0RC9TWQWpM&feature=youtu.be
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but your mistake was revealing. On some hastily scanned reading, you took to your shouty podium, denounced the author as a fool and a liar etc, and repeated your claim the the UK is going to the dogs, on account of people like me and her. You are so blatantly biased, your pronouncements can only be suspect no matter how belligerently you make them.
Even so, in passing, you STILL claim the author to be a fool without acknowledging even the extent of her research, let alone the evidence she finds.
You claim that unlike me, you CARE about the truth. What arrogance. That's based on nothing but your own certainty that your perspective is correct. Therefore mine must be wrong. And I'm wrong because I don't care enough. You're like a religious maniac, and as you know, we have enough trouble with them.
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Like I said from the start, her entire Tweedle Dum, Tweedle Dee thesis is crackpot idiotic. It's like saying the cops and robbers are just two sides of the same coin. It's retarded. Islam is an ideology of divinely ordained conquest and oppression. Oppoaing it is only similar on the most superficial analysis. Yeah, you could have two opposing rallies in the street and if you were as dumb as her you might not notice that one is calling for Britain's demise while the other is calling for its protection. They're both shouting after all.
Oh my god, that's so stupid! How stupid? Stupid enough that it leads this moron to calling Robert Spencer a "right wing extremist". Read his rebuttal. Oh right. Why should you? You've already found an excuse to hide from it.
You are exactly what's wrong with your country. I have absolute certainty that if you live long enough you will be cursed by regret, deep soul-crushing shame, when you finally realize, way too late, how willfully blind you were.
Modified by Jim at Tue, Oct 24, 2017, 07:58:38
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Here's a video of one of your countrymen who hasn't been fooled like you have by the leftist propaganda walking through and commenting upon Spencer's rebuttal to Ebner and Quilliam and using some clips from a Spencer talk to show how horribly misguided she is:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2017/05/quilliams-julia-ebner-says-robert-spencer-is-alt-right-wheres-the-evidence
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I didn't know before watching that video that Ebner and Nawaz at Quilliam were instrumental in getting Spencer and Geller barred from Britain. That little bitch ....
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You are exactly what's
wrong with your country. I have absolute certainty that if you live long
enough you will be cursed by regret, deep soul-crushing shame, when you
finally realize, way too late, how willfully blind you were.
We don't want your lefty commie pinko blindness ruining this country!
Make America Great Again!
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Yeah, when I'm woken each morning by the sound of the wailing from the minaret at the end of the street, I'll remember Jim and wonder what he regrets most, the takeover of the world by Muslims, or the lack of fish, forests, insects, soil, food and coastal cities. Maybe our Muslim masters will find a verse in the Qoran about looking after the environment, and things will work out for the best.
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Confucius say Jim will be too busy singing the praises of our Chinese masters to regret the loss of anything. But I think he will miss the good old days when there was clean air, good food and water and the Muslims were the worst thing since sliced tofu.
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And you, you might be getting a bit of a glow to your cheeks I suppose courtesy of N Korea?
I keep thinking of the fish. I've been fishing for 20 years in the Channel between here and France. When I started, we fished off a bank about 5 miles offshore. When the fish declined there, we targeted inshore wrecks, then offshore wrecks, further and further out till we were half way to France and if we went further, we'd be heading inshore again. Not many boats went out that far, so we did fine. Lot of work, lot of fuel, but always, freezers full of cod, ling, pollack and bass. Big part of our diet.
3? years ago, a decline in the numbers of cod triggered a moratorium on catching cod with nets in the SW channel, and us rod fishermen saw the comeback. We caught plenty of cod, usually the same size as each other, and each year, much bigger than the last - there was a spike in numbers with the moratorium and we could see the fish growing.
I'm not sure if the moratorium is lifted now or not - it doesn't matter any more, because this year, there are no cod, no pollack, no bass and just a few ling. We've tried the far wrecks numerous times, and the fish are gone.
I met George the fisherman, a commercial guy who expanded his business into oysters in the Dart. I met him walking the dog, which never happens, cos he's always fishing. Not any more. He's plain George now, and sadly, all his oysters have died too, and the marine labs can't diagnose the problem. No fish or oysters for George.
George had one day when he filled his boat with a fish called orange roughey, which he'd never caught before. They normally live down around Portugal and south of there, so they were sold and exported to Spain/Portugal (the English don't eat them, yet). There have also been more herring than usual, and bluefin tuna chasing them which are too rare to consider catching.
I went for some mackerel a couple of weeks ago, incredibly having drawn a blank all year on even these numerous fish. I got a bucket full of small ones.
It looks like the fish we usually have here have gone up into the North Sea.
Probably warming of the sea. What else could it be? But who'd have thought, overnight, the fish would be gone? I joked with my friends early in the year that if the fish were gone, their boats would be worthless unless they put them on trailers and took them to Scotland and sold them there. The joke has gone flat, and one of my friends mentioned he'd found a trailer the other day...
So sudden, so complete. Never happened before. Maybe they'll come back next year, but who knows? I find it disconcerting.
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God, that's awful. I know there's been concerns about over-fishing for most of our lives but to collapse like that! Usually you think fish kill - something in the water has done it. Or the factory boats have been through. But yes water temperature rise. I hope the fish are back next year.
Orange Roughy is a prized fish over here. But fish stocks in general have declined. My neighbour went fishing yesterday and I asked how did they go no nothing. well nothing turned out be snapper, parrot fish, and a couple of others (I zoned out after snapper as that is my favourite fish) around 30 fish in total, but none of them were big ones, he said and that is a worry.
One of the things that makes me want to move to Tasmania is the clean waters and good fishing tho I don't suppose it will last over there either, but for now it is still a great place for all sorts of good food. I went looking on the internet yesterday and I couldn't believe my eyes, 385 acres, forest and paddock easterly slopes of Mt Elephant - 400mtrs above sea level, fantastic sea view, nice old farmhouse, stone outhouse frost free orchard. okay so gravel road in. And some of it is sclerophyll forest which burns - surrounded on three sides by state forests. But magical, an English country garden complete with box hedges perched in a sunny spot up a mountain looking out over the ocean with the mighty rainforest beneath it.
yup, that's my cunning plan, find a quiet out of the way spot - the ostrich solution seems pretty sensible to me I don't worry too much about N Korea but I am glad I am not a fish living in the ocean where he is dropping the bombs.
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Wow, that land sounds amazing. I went to Tasmania a long time ago - the Englishness was surprising despite the ferntrees and all that stuff. It seemed idyllic.
I'm still looking for a patch of land, about 100th of the size of what you're looking at!
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yes, I like the Englishness and the bright clear air. It's a staggeringly large piece of land and not so expensive - mostly forest I think, and mostly steep unusable land. I don't know if you pay a large rates bill or not or what responsibilities you might face but the road would be expensive to maintain. But where there is an old settlement it tends to mean it's a good spot. I said paddocks but it's not fenced just cleared areas and I think it might have been used for sheep from the look of it. The worst thing is the threat of fire - you'd have to assess it imagining the state forest ablaze behind you. It's been there a long time tho and it's a sizeable area cleared around it. The road would probably be difficult when there's lots of rain. I mean there has to be reasons it doesn't have a bigger price on it but part of that is simply that the house is small. It has a lovely tall thin chimney.
Anyway so the point is there I am thinking the farmhouse with the lovely water views and 2 acres, 5 minutes by sealed road to town is maybe more than I can handle and suddenly it looks a lot easier. 
It is entirely beyond me but goodness that place has knocked me sideways. It is idyllic looking. and part of me is kinda like well you know I could just manage to get up and down the driveway a few times a year in favourable weather....
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Because I have no ambition to deconstruct Spencer's arguments. Because this isn't the Islam forum. There are other subjects. I go fishing. Or at least, I used to.
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