But I also heard Maharaji has done a lot of cruel things to people, that he seemed to think were jokes. He seemed to be particularly cruel to Bahari Singh. Wasn't Bahari kind of Maharaji's guardian, or valet or something when Maharaji was younger?

I heard that he made Bahari Singh eat dog shit.

He made Bahari Singh sit in a tub full of water on the roof of the Kansas City ashram in the middle of winter, and would often hit him with sticks, and dump freezing and boiling water on him.

I heard he made Danny Blood put on a suit used to train dogs and then shot a gun at him. I heard Danny say this himself when he came through my community one time.

I heard he used to hit his Indian devotees with sticks, apparently emulating his father who had done the same thing.

He made two premies sit under a blanket and then sat on top of them and had his picture taken. This was later on the cover of 'And It Is Divine.'

Maharaji would demand that certain projects be undertaken that required premies to work day and night, without the slightest care as to their welfare, or perhaps being intentionally abusive. Friends I knew who worked at DECA, said that he often did this, and premies were always expected to comply. Some who are now ex-premies say it was intentional. Maharaji would get angry for some reason, and then take it out on the premies doing service.

I remember one program in Denver, Maharaji was really upset about the way the stage looked. He said it looked like a 'toilet bowl' and yelled at the coordinators of the program for about an hour after it was all over. They looked really freaked afterwards.

I have read here that Maharaji was really abusive to some of the initiator candidates in the Initiator Training Programs. I read where a few of them admitted later that they contemplated suicide because of the way he yelled at and abused them.

Have any of you heard things like this?

Michael Dettmers, do you know of any of this?

He once suggested I electrocute myself on an electric fire, but I politely refused.

Anth who wasn't totally surrendered.

Also, how long did you hang around the family after this event occurred did you hang around the wholly holey holy family? How long did you go to events after this occurred.

Steve the curious, nosey, but keeping his metal objects away from AC/DC

I guess this must have been about 20 years ago. I taught the children for about two and a half years, tailing off towards the end, as Susan in Malibu spent more time with them.

I was invited to parties etc, for a few years afterwards. The last one I went to was about five years ago, in Malibu. I wrote about it on the forum I think.

I explained his strange request to myself by saying, 'He was joking.' which he probably was. It wasn't a big deal.

I'm way out of touch with the children nowadays. They have grown up now, but when they were small, I had a good relationship with them.

Anth the screwdriver.

It wasn't a big deal really. I was sitting on the floor in the classroom with Daya. Maharaji came in and sat down with us. Daya, who must have been about three, picked up a screwdriver, and started poking at an electric fire with it, that was on. It was obviously extremely dangerous. I expected her dad to tell her to stop, but he didn't. So I did. I said something like, 'Daya, don't do that. You could get an electric shock and die.' I think I took the screwdriver off her.

The Maharaji said something like, 'You stick it in the fire Anth and show her what you mean.'

I declined.

Writing that story reminded me of another life and death incident involving Daya. I'd been invited over to their house in Miami, and was hanging out around a small pool somewhere. A 'sister' was cleaning the pool. Daya, again around 3 years old, tripped on something and fell into the pool. I heard a splash, looked around, and saw her on her back, on the bottom of the pool. I jumped in, fully clothed, and got her out. I carried her over to the house and somebody took her off me. I stood there, completely soaked from head to foot. Someone said, 'I guess you need a lift home. They dropped me off at the place where I was staying. But my friends were out and I didn't have a key. So I was left on the pavement, dripping wet.

Ah well, that's showbiz.

Anth the drip drip drip

The Maharaji said something like, 'You stick it in the fire Anth and show her what you mean.'

Is it my imagination, Anth, or are you playing mind games?

I find this very disturbing.

Steve

I'm not trying to play any mind games.

He did suggest I stick the screwdriver into the fire. If I had done what he said I would have electrocuted myself.

However, my interpretation was that he was making a joke. I don't think he genuinely wanted me to electrocute myself.

Sorry if I caused confusion. I try to be sensationalistic and entertaining sometimes. But I didn't make any of it up.

Anth the Scandal Scandal Read All About It.

Some of the things you've written in this context.

My brush with death at the Residence.

He once suggested I electrocute myself on an electric fire, but I politely refused.

It wasn't a big deal really.

Writing that story reminded me of another life and death incident involving Daya.

You're a teacher, Anth, and I expect a reponsible person. You know that a large part of the forum revolves around stories from people who have been close to m. I'm serious when I say that I find this disturbing. If you tell a story with a moral attached please stick with it or think before you post.

Steve

When I write, I deliberately try to manipulate the reader's emotions. Particularly, in this example, I teased you by saying Captain Rawat told me to electrocute myself. Then kind of let you down by saying I thought he was joking.

You don't like to have your emotions manipulated by somebody in this way. You just want the writer to give you information, not to fuck around with your feelings. This is what you mean by me playing mind games.

Here's my defense.

Steve, I'm a writer. This has been my job for about 20 years. Often I do simply write down information.

But I do another kind of writing too, where the aim is to manipulate the reader's emotions. This is the purpose of a novel, or a film, or a poem. It's also a function of advertising and political propaganda.

Captain Rawat did ask me to electrocute myself. I thought he was joking. I don't think he wanted me to kill myself, in his house, on the floor, in front of his daughter. He ain't that crazy Steve. He'd at least have had Daya leave the room first.

Maybe if I'd written it for a newspaper, the editor would have picked up on it like you did, and make me rewrite it or something. But, as you know, this is the Forum where all sorts of shit flows by from time to time.

Anth the unedited imperfect sensational propagandist

I remember the shouting and tirades in the ashram meetings also. But I don't think I was too concerned at the time since I also had a verbally abusive father who used to fly off the handle and get angry for no reason also, so I guess I thought it was normal at the time. I know better now.

I've no idea whether or not this is true .

I found myself standing next to him once at a urinal during a programme.

Very small geezer with a beady eye , & a strong , 'do not fuck with me', vibe .

If HE ever turns , Rawat will have to spend all his dough on security , is my guess.

It seemed very strange when he did it.

At least Fakiranand was not around.

Bin, email me, please.

Marianne

He was around Bhole Ji's band because when the family broke up, he stayed with Bhole Ji, Mata Ji and Bal Bhagwan Ji. I liked him but he definitely was a character. I don't know where he went but I assume with Satpal.

I got Bihari Singh a place to stay with an East Indian premie family in South Miami, the Chatterjees. I recall Bihari hanging around the ashrams, and I think he tried to go to the residence. I don't know if Maharaji ever saw him or not. I can't recall what happened to him.

He did indeed leave Prempal and go with Satpal and Mata Ji only to be rejected by them. He then returned to Prempal but was never taken back into the inner circle and wandered on the periphery.

Right up until the last event I went to (Long Beach 96) I used to always see Bihari. In real life a small man (looked bigger in the pics standing next Prempal) with a mischievous grin. His few strands of grey hair were amateurly dyed red-brown like henna. He actually was a lot like a friendly puppy.

I have this feeling sometimes that becoming a Mahatma was Rawat's ( apparently both Sr. and Jr.s ) version of the Mariel boatlift. We have so many reports of criminal behavior of so many Mahatmas that I truly wonder our vision of these supposedly normal Indian citizens becoming smitten with knowledge was pure myth of DLM's creation. I think they were the misfits and sociopaths of Indian society looking for a way out and a place to hide.

Some of them actually terrified me. I felt that many were such low beings that I would not have given them a second look on the street but of course we were supposed to respect and trust them. I know I'm a snob but some of these guys really were lower than the lowest.

When you think of it, what ever happened to all of the other body guards and residence people? Marino Amico, Steve Braband, for example.

I met him in Miami once and he was very proud of his photo Album lots of pictures of him with m's father & m.

What didn't m ever forgive him for???

Curious George

The way I heard it, when the split happened, g-c was obviously in confusion, so prempal beingthe all-knowing and compassionate lord told g-c to go to mataji. G-c went there and cleared his doubts.

I heard g-c talk about this oncw when he said that those months away with bbj amd mataji were the only time in his life when he felt unhappiness.

Wow, isn't, charanand a wonderful example of a devotee!!!

Jethro

He had agya from Shri Hans to never leave Mata Ji, and he had agya from Prem Pal to stay away from her.

He made his choice, and agya stinks!

I never understood GC - one of the few mahatmas who did not seem insane to me, peculiar yes but not nuts.

The last time I saw hGC in 96 I was stunned that he did not seem to be glowing as I had always perceived him. He was gossiping with the rest of the Malibu Mafia outside the LB conference center and looked so ordinary but that could have been because I was no longer viewing him with the eyes of a servant of a servant of the lord.

Beauty (and divinity) is definitely in the eyes of the beholder.

But he was a real liar. He later admitted he just made stuff up to make Maharaji appear more divine, and, essentially, to pad his own nest. Then, of course, he was carrying on a sexual affair with a premie during the time he was supposed to be a celibate saint. Of course, he wasn't the only Mahatma to do that, and was just following what Maharaji was doing as an example.

He also wasn't as humble as he appeared when it came to his personal comforts. I remember him screaming at a housemother who had the gall to give him carrot juice which had been made without peeling the carrots first. The fact that the carrot skin had all the vitamins did not impress him.

But GC should be most condemned to attempting to 'sing' in that
'Jester' band. God he was awful, and a terrible ham.

Charanand once yelled at me for bringing him tap water instead of that evian-bottled water.(Kensington new town hall, circa 1979)
I told him to go get it himself.
I always believed that m was the only one to be honoured.

What a ripoff merchant he is.

I don't think he liked me because he once said to me that not all people needed GMJ, and if they didn't they shouldn't be around.

Jethro

Later when I did security at large program I found out he had moved to Miami and was one the bongo list for doing all sorts of strange (and sometimes) violent things.

Later, when everyone in the house left for a weekend retreat (I stayed behind as the only person with a paying job, working the weekend), I watched 'The Rockford Files' on that sacred TV, and then felt very guilty about it. I doubt if Gurucharanand did.

I must admit he has become rather used to creture comforts on a grand scale compare to hbis early days in west Kensington when he really appealed to our unmaterialistic ideals.

These days he does demand things from premies (monkey see monkey do) other western Instructors now and have bee for a while following suit.

Charanand demands particular food and vitamins as well as golf courses like the one Tiger Woods plays on, expensive golf equipment and tennis courts and raquets. Talking about raquets it's all a bloody racket!

C.G.

I did a fair amount of service with/for Marino. I liked him a lot. He was always an extremely nice guy toward me--down to earth, serious but with a nice sense of humor. I have fond memories of Marino (actually I had a slight crush on him--which was easy to do with someone who treated people with respect).

Poured a whole bunch of motor oil and crap in Kathy Sullivan's (Pranam Bai's) hair (she told me, so I know it's true). I think he also used some kind of file or rasp on her teeth, but I can't remember now. I really liked Kathy, but I don't know where she is now. I think she left the cult quite a while ago, but that's just what I heard.

The premies that were under the sheet for the centerfold of and it is divine were given ex-lax and told to stay still. I believe I heard this from Milky Cole, if I'm not mistaken, and he was one of the x-laxed ones. Maharaji also threw Milky in the water because he knew Milky couldn't swim, and I did hear that one straight from Milky, I remember it well. He thought it was so divine. I believe it was off a boat, not into a swimming pool, or anything like that. Milky told us lots of stories about stuff M did to him and Gary Girard.

Also, that Kissimmee ashram meeting spoken of below was a corker. I posted about M's dead rat analogy a few weeks ago. He started screaming at us about our attachments to worldly things such as, uh, uh, he was really worked up and grabbed in the air for something here ... Coca Cola. Mocking our few little wordly pleasures as celibate shrammies. He mocked someone enjoying a Coca-Cola when THUNK there's a dead rat in the bottom of the bottle. Then he started screaming SUCK THE RAT! IT'S FULL OF COCA-COLA! YOU LOVE COCA-COLA. I wish I had a video, except that I'd probably die laughing. He was sooooo jealous that we could even love a Coke more than him.

Although it didn't register, it was at that moment when I realized that the man was mentally unmoored. It stayed in my suppressed file for many years, because we forgive our friends (and our abusers) again and again, after all.

Kathy almost died from a fall some years ago. She's a great person, very smart and funny. She has a website called, 'Kathy's Books of the Month,' where she recommends and reviews books, which she inhales in large quantities. I check out her site every month, because she recommends some fabulous books.

http://home.earthlink.net/~zbig/

He was a nice guy. I always thought it was funny because the 'heavies' that were sent by DLM security to 'stake out' Bhole Ji's band's digs in a Thousand Oaks housing complex (after DLM forcibly seized our musical equipment) were Dean and Jay Zemel. After a few days, the poor guys looked tired, hungry and bored, sitting there in a car all day and night. Several years later we were all in the LA ashram together.

F

That particular video (is not at hand to put its name now)was very helpful for me to exit the cult because it was the beggining of seeing his true site, read SCREWED UP HUMAN BEING. It would be insane to want to continue being abused, when the true lard emerges on his VERY SPECIAL VIDEOS. What was I thinking always justifying his absurd behavior? SHIT!

Thanks for your post. Are you new?

Kissimmee, for those who were not there, was a program where Rawat assalted us with several of his longest, heaviest, and loudest tirades. I remember him yelling about our supposed 'sex trips', laying the guilt on as much as possible. The irony of it is that many of us were into a 'non-sex trip', being celibate because he told us to. And from what people have said, it looks like he was into weird sex trips.

He is indeed a very unpleasant character. The more I read here and the longer I stay away from his bs, the clearer this becomes.

To Elan Vital: you are total liars when you say Rawat doesn't have a yacht.

Then in the ashram meeting it was even worse. So bad, I think I blacked most of that out of my memory.

Then, he dressed up in stripped-down Krishna garb and had premies pull him around on a cart while the rest of us lined the dirt roads and pranamed in the dust. It was a real treat. One of the sickest events in the history of the cult.

I think J-M has a picture of that particular atrocity on the website. Truly nauseating. Michael Donner is one of the premies being the human horses.

This was in November, 1979, but, of course, Elan Vital points out that he wasn't pushing Hindu concepts or anything, and certainly wasn't acting like he was God or anything. Oh, no, of course not. Yeah, right.

It was all so very sick, sick, sick.

After coming cross country on a plane, with a severe ENT problem, and having to sleep in a tent in the cold, I was pretty miserable. But then Maharaji drove by in the jeep and I pranamed my foolish heart away.

Here we have all these intelligent, well-spoken, people talking about enduring things that were just SO weird that one would think any person would walk away from the whole situation immediately. I have met some of these people in person and frankly cannot imagine them doing or saying some of the things that they did back then (I know they did, though - that's the weird part.)

One of my favorite sayings, from Sally Carrighar, is 'Bizarre realities can be rejected.' Boy, does that ever apply here! It is REALIZING that you are living in a bizarre reality that is the hard part.

I was outside my tent holding on to the frame, thinking that if I could just keep everything dry inside, I would be alright. No such luck! Everything was soaked through. I was soaked through.

But I was laughing the whole time. What a perfect end to a disasterous festival!

David

I wasn't in the ashram meeting at Kissimee, but after about three days, it was so intense I just stopped going to satsang and stayed in my tent reading. Before I left for Kissimee I took the latest copy of Scientific American, which had as its cover story the 'Dung Beetles of Africa', those critters which mine those huge elephant droppings left all over the African savannah. The think I read every word of that Scientific American.

I was surprised to hear Maharaji giving satsang about 'Dung Beetles' a few days latter. So it must have been in Kissemee '79 that he gave his famous 'Dung Beetle' satsang. Maybe he was reading Scientific American.

David

Kissimee '79 was unusual in that the climate changed so abruptly. One or two weeks before Kissimee, the vibe at satsang changed from happy and expectant to drab and dreary, with no one having anything to say, in the course of 24 hrs.

Now I find out that this sudden change in atmospherics roughly corresponds to the time that Maharaji arrived at the festival site, and reportedly he was very dissatisfied with the preparations that were being made. Maybe someone telephoned Berkeley and relayed the message and the whole thing got around , which was why satsang changed so rapidly. I was seriously contemplating not going but I already had my ticket.

I wonder if all these climatological changes correspond to changes in the moods of Maharaji.

David

I remember that very well. I had just come of 'helping' in a k-session in a tent and as I came out m was passing by being carried by some initiators. I was about a yard(uk measurement, not quite extinct) away frm him and I turned to see wht he was staring at. 20000(?) pairs of adoring eyes.
I thought 'So this is what it's like to see thru the eyes of God'.
Oy vey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

in Kissimee

For those who can't tell, that is Michael Donner walking to the right of the Flabby One, on the left side of the picture. Note also the premies holding their hands in prayer mode.

I've used it to illustrate the Indian background page.

This is how Prem Rawat's been presented to us !!

Current PWK's, every time you see the phrase 'Only by Compassion' on the Divine Mall trinkets, please take a moment to remember Barbara.

God, I can't imagine, the way I believed in Maharaji, actually LEAVING the ITP. That took guts, or maybe Maharaji was so awful she couldn't help it. When did she do this? Do you recall the approximate year?

Did Maharaji say why that other initiator couldn't go visit Barbara when she was dying? Was the implication that Barbara had crossed M and therefore was excommunicated like Bihari and therefore she shouldn't go? When the other initiator resigned, did she also leave the cult?

That's sad about Bihari. I remember it was really weird when he showed up in Miami. I guess there were orders from M that Elan Vital wasn't to help him. Fortunately there were some community people who did.

I guess forgiveness and compassion are not a strong points for Maharaji.

The other initiator who left did so because they were close to Barbara and thought it was her duty as a friend to be with her. The other initiator did leave and never went back.

Don't recall the year - anyone else know more about this?

M's interpretation of compassion sounds indentical to Bush's (as in 'fuck 'em').