In regard to "defending" EV, I was simply pointing out that what Jim had said was not correct. Jim had said that the EV statement was "proof that Rawat -- through EV -- has lied about whether or not he ever claimed to be the Lord" and that "This is a straighforward, explicit denial that he is the Lord."

I was simply pointing out that what Jim asserted was clearly not the case.

I said:

"Not answering a question fully, or not answering a question directly, or side-stepping a question, etc., is NOT lying. You may not like it, but it is not lying. For EV to tactfully answer a question, to sidestep a question, to give the best answer they can under the circumstances, to give a diplomatic answer (bearing in mind the reasons for their answer) is NOT lying. As a lawyer you ought to know that. You may not like that EV answer, you may think it is evasive, or whatever, but it is not a lie."

I don't particularly like that kind of statement either - too much spin - but I understand the intention behind it, and it is NOT "proof that Rawat -- through EV -- has lied about whether or not he ever claimed to be the Lord", it is NOT "a straighforward, explicit denial that he is the Lord."

Anyway, regardless of how honest a statement that may or may not be - and leaving aside the issue of whether Maharaji claimed to be simply "God", or whether he claimed to be something in some way different from being simply "God" - I have been attempting to clearly make the point that Maharaji has never said that he is NOT "the Lord", he has never said that he is NOT a "Satguru" (in the sense of "the true one who can bring you from darkness to light"), he has never said that he is NOT "Perfect Master".

There seemed to be some confusion about that on this board. When I am with practicing premies from the 1970s, there is never any feeling or sense that Maharaji is NOT something like "Lord" or "Satguru" or "Perfect Master" - it's understood. (It's understood that he is at least one of those things!) You may not agree with that (obviously) - that he is any of those things - but I'm just pointing out that that is how Maharaji is (still) regarded - not as omniscient, not as someone with supernatural powers, not as someone who can speak all the languages in the world, or any of that sort of nonsense - but he is regarded as a very special human being who can show people how to find a source of love within themselves, a source of peace, a source of joy, to find "God" within themselves. Whether he can actually do this is up to people to decide for themselves, but Maharaji's message has not changed. It's only the packaging that has changed, to appeal to a wider audience, including a Western audience - many of whom have no interest in Hinduism or Eastern religions, or any religion, and would find that offputting - Maharaji has always said that he does not wish to start a new religion, and he has always said that you can practice a religion and still practice Knowledge.

You don't have to scratch very far under the surface to discover how premies generally regard Maharaji. If you look at the kind of songs premies are recording on CDs about Maharaji and Knowledge, it gives an indication that what I am saying is true - that premies still regard Maharaji in much the same way as before. In essence it is the same. For example, on a "Thank You" CD which was posted to practicing premies a few years ago (from EV), (which includes two tracks which are extracts of Maharaji speaking), there is a song by Kim O'Leary (1995) with these lyrics:

"If I should ever lose sight of you, please find a way to open my eyes again,
I fell into a heavy dream a long time ago, God only knows the kind of shape it got me in,
And precious are the hands that gathered all of the pieces, and perfect is the love that made me whole again.
You are my oasis of love, in a world of make-believe and fantasy,
Oasis of love, draw me nearer...
...And when I saw the pure love that pours from your eyes..." (etc).

Also on that CD (and on "Love's Magic" CD, 2002) there is a track entitled "The Human Heart" with "lyrics by Wadi Rawat":

"If you're seeking miracles, be wise in where you search,
You'll find what you seek in the human heart, not temple, mosque or church...
Even the sightless see the splendour of heaven shining bright,
Because heaven is seen with the human heart, and not with human sight...
Will you be waiting for redemption, when you are taking your last breath?
Because redemption awaits in the human heart and not in human death...." (etc).

And Charanand has a song on the "Songs from the Mezzanine" CD (2001) entitled "The Master I Adore" - "You are the Master I adore...".

These CDs are openly on sale at events. So it's quite clear that there is no great pretence that Maharaji is regarded as merely a humanitarian leader. There is not the denial that perhaps some people on this board think there is.

Maybe most people on this board already knew that, but one person mentioned that she thought Maharaji was now merely claiming to be a humanitarian leader. Maharaji is claiming to be able to show people how to find love, how to find "God" within themselves - I have heard him use these words recently - so obviously he is not claiming to be merely a humanitarian leader. He is trying not to claim to be anything, other than a human being with a special gift - and he is leaving it up to people to realise for themselves who or what he is - rather than be labelled as this or that (in advance of people finding out for themselves through their own experience, which will be different for each individual).