But that's all they are. For example: given the high level of secrecy surrounding M, the likelihood is that the information on EPO is only the tip of the iceberg. I gather M has now instituted gagging clauses preventing any other defectors from spilling the beans, which might mean a temporary slowing of the stream of revelations, but it will be only temporary as such devices are crude means for hiding the truth.

How high does the evidence have to pile up before you will acknowledge it? Or is it the case that no amount of evidence will convince you?

You know full well that EPO is not just "subjective interpretations of events"--that there are first-hand accounts from people with no good reason to lie. Meanwhile, on the M and EV side we continue to see smokescreens and excuses, rationalizations and revisionism.

How long must this go on before you face reality?

Neville B