Well, Paddy, I didn't mean that colorful imagry (I know, I'm being a bit vague with that), but I do believe that the Rawat belief system, if one takes it literally and tries to follow the prescribed path, is a recipe for a lot of frustration.  But that isn't to say that all premies experience that all the time.  That's the distinction and I didn't make in those remarks.  But part of being in a cult is that premie's aren't going to talk much about whatever frustrations or hopelessness they feel, or the ups and downs they feel before and after events, etc., and of course quite a lot of them might have nice families, good jobs, friends, good drugs (), all the rest just like anybody else.

All I'm saying is that those external events and appearances are just that, and they don't really tell you what the experience of being a premie is like.  Clearly, ex-premies often do talk about it, and on balance, I don't think premies and ex-premies are all that different as a group, except with respect to whether they accept the belief system or not.

Regarding "lowered expectations" and changes in the cult, I think the fact that a lot of the rhetoric has been toned down, there aren't ashrams, and the like, makes it easier to have lowered expectations, because Rawat and the cult aren't constantly telling them that knowledge and devotion to Rawat should be 100% of their focus.  So, yes, I think it is easier to slide through having Rawatism as a rather undemanding religion, but with the same caveat I mentioned above, that when push comes to shove, the fear is still there, the blind spot is still there, and, ultimately, the same rip off and feelings of frustration are still there.

I think Mike Finch in his post above described it about the best I have ever heard it, and Mike doesn't really comment on what premies experience or don't.

Paddy, I think I essentially agree with your perceptions on this, about the premies you know and how they live, and I know some who are probably very similar.  But, again, I think external perceptions of stability and happiness, aren't really related to the problems ex-premies have with Prem Rawat.

And true, we couldn't live with the congnative dissonance of being a premie, but that's because we aren't in a cult, which is, by definition, a full set of defense mechanisims and thought control that works to prevent there being any experience of cognitive dissonance.  It's essentially an information disease. 

But I do believe, that most people, no matter how long they have been in the cult, do experience cognitive dissonance coming through, and expend lots of energy to avoid having to look at it, and I think that is very unhealthy.  How damaging it is to peoples' lives, I think varies quite a lot, and I agree that the cult these days does not require people to sustain the kind of damage they did in years past.  That's certainly true.

Sorry you have to deal with Juan, I know the feeling, believe me.