Enjoy your life too. Really.

I don't personally think premies aren't welcome here. Providing they are honest and up-front I don't have any objection to them.However, why on earth would they turn up at a discussion forum? To discuss our common history, Yes? Fair enough, I've no problem with that.

There was a poster here a short while ago.....Yadot. At first he (?) was low key about his real feelings. Prem was a friend etc. When trying to determine whether he worshipped and revered Rawat it eventually became apparent that he did. I was puzzled why he kept his true feelings hidden but once it was " out" then he tried to play it cute and clever. Suddenly he was total love & devotion personified. In "Rawat" terms I mean. Then he studiously ignored certain people, myself included, but splattered the board with " Satsang", asserted that none of us had ever "got it", all sorts of stuff. I mean was the guy stupid or what? I mean, the combined life experience of genuine commitment and devotion amongst even just a handful of ex-premies here is in the hundreds of years. We know the score. Every tiny little aspect of a life of dedication and devotion has been lived through by all here. Just read some of the reflections, insights and testimony of the folks here and that much is obvious.

So, if a premie comes here, a lukewarm devotee with plenty of the questions, doubts, queries etc that we've all experienced and wanted to discuss things then that Premie would, no doubt, be welcome.In my book, even a religious fruit& nutcase such as Yadot would be welcome providing, from the outset, he/she was sincere and honest.What would be left to discuss in such a case would probably be limited.....as I say, we've participated in every aspect of Rawat devotion and clearly rejected it.....but if a die-hard devotee passes through and isn't preachy or sarcastic then I'm sure there'd be a civil hello/goodbye ,at least.

Put it this way, if I turn up at a Premie forum ( not a regular occurrence but it has happened) I don't pretend I'm not quite sure about being an ex. No, I'm honest about my views and opinions. Many premies might not like it but at least they know where I stand. If I talked to them about Rawat I'd be honest about it too. It’s that simple really. Now, obviously, a premie forum isn't my natural place to read & post just as this place isn't the natural place for a devotee. Funnily enough, though, I very, very rarely read the premie forum....well, actually I don't have access to it now but that's ok with me.....but it seems that online premies constantly monitor the ex forums. Constantly.Well, every time over a number of years, I've checked out their forum I'd invariably find them attacking individual exes and discussing almost every topic mentioned on the ex forums. Along with their " small talk" of racing or whatever. Yet they still maintain they only indulge in their own " small talk" and don't have the slightest interest in ex's and ex forums. As if!!!

The trouble is, IMO,most of the regular online devotees are out & out toe kissers whose very existence, very reason for living is Rawat worship but they'll cloak that ardent devotion whilst ( for about the last 7, 8 or 9 years) doing everything they can to silence and/or threaten/intimidate ex-premies.I won't go into the history ( sorry, no time to explain CAC etc). Take this latest John McG affair, for instance, for years these online premies " who just want to be left alone to exchange racing bets etc" have been drooling over every sad episode of the guys mental disintegration. Now some of these characters, even those I consider reprehensible, are sort of " likeable" in a way. Probably, in many ways I'd get on with them on a certain level and up to a certain point BUT, and here's the rub, there is, undeniably, something extremely nasty deep below the surface. In one sense, it's even hard to blame them individually because, IMO, the fanaticism is part and parcel of personality cultism. It's such an intense, all-consuming box of tricks that they have no other option but to be, ultimately, an unthinking, uncritical apologist for the object of devotion.

Many years ago a non-premie pushed a cream pie into Rawats face. A mahatma and a couple of other premies paid him a visit and smashed his skull with a hammer and nearly killed him. An extreme example, yes I know, but I reckon personality worship has that "protective" vicious, nasty streak at its core. It's just the nature of the beast. I mean, let's face it, that same ultimate potential for violent reaction probably exists inside every parent of a child on the planet, does it not? It's there in all sorts of other animal life, too. And to be honest, that somehow seems genuinely understandable, don’t you agree? Protection of the helpless child when under genuine threat would naturally lead to violence. It would with me, anyway. So those are the forces really at play.

However, to me at any rate ( and remember, I've lived through the whole trip of being an ardent Rawat devotee), when it really, really comes down to it there's something fundamentally perverse, disquieting and repugnant about a bunch of adults worshipping a guy whose dishonesty, selfishness and arrogance is plain to discern if looked at fairly and dispassionately. Where the parent/child scenario strikes us as natural, the religious worship of some " speaker", teacher", MASTER, is just plain weird. To see those forces at play, to witness what such fanaticism has done to John McGregor, say, is just plain disgusting.

Now, ok, you go to the events and congregate together and, after all, you all just want that good, individual " experience". Fine, go for it. It's no longer my thing but whatever, eh? The thing is, though, I'm pretty much certain that some, at least, of Rawats followers would, if instructed, do anything.....absolutely ANYTHING if Rawat told them to. Yes, I'm pretty much certain that the mad mahatma with a hammer scenario is just a natural extension of personality cult worship when all else is stripped away.

Finally, Eileen, you state: "You have alot of good arguments and valid reasons why people shouldn't be involved, but I don't agree from my own personal experience ". Check out what the Prem Rawat sanctioned Elan Vital-UK faq's says about our " good arguments and valid reasons....." and believe me their blatantly misleading propaganda piece is all fine and dandy with that little toe rag called Prem Pal Singh Rawat : ) It's almost as if he hates people who refuse to continue worshipping him and query him instead : ) Yes, Mr lovey-dovey Rawat has the orgs and lawyers to protect his nest eggs

Anyway, take care..