Look, Grass, it just dosen't cut it to say that what John and I posted aren't relevant because it's "about" something else.  That is doubletalk nonsense, at least to me.  I know you believe in what you believe and want to preserve it.  Believe me, I have been there.  But you might just try opening up to the full history here, the actual facts I mean.  The rest is just hedging, although I'm not sure you really hear it that way.

And unlike what you imply, I never had any exhaulted position in Rawat's cult.  I was always pretty much a peon premie, and I'm sure you are just shitting me about the "personal trappings of power."

It is completely up to you if you want to ignore what Rawat did.  He clearly claimed to be God, and did nothing when others, including his own wife, told us that's who he was.  This is a real issue, Grass.  It isn't something that it's not "about."  It's what it's completely "about."

So, you can't have it both ways.  If you want to say it doesn't matter what Marilyon Rawat said in 1978 about her husband being God, to a big room full of premies, then that's up to you.  But you can't also then say that John is a "waste of time" because he considers it important and something people should know.

You know, Grass, if Prem Rawat ever directly addressed this issue and took responsibility for it, a lot of this discussion would get deflated.  Why doesn't he do that?

You also didn't answer my question about what's on the Elan Vital website about "ancient history," and what "arti" is.  Do you agree with that, or not?  Do you agree that "Arti" is just a song that people sing to relatives who return from a trip?  Do you think that's an accurate statement your Master's organization has on it's website these days?

How about that the ashrams were shelters from drugs?  Did you agree when Elan Vital spun that one?  Can you understand that it is my history as well, and I might be a bit offended when they lie about it?