|
|
|
I was just checking how old this forum is (19years) and I found this post I wrote. I must say it is remarkable in its clarity.  _____________________________________________________ In 1999 when I first read EPO there was only Mishler's radio interview, and a few unsubstantiated allegations of empty brandy bottles in Rawat's trash. The other stuff was an analysis of his claim to a lineage of Perfect Masters. It was questioning my belief in that lineage that I think pushed me out, but I must admit I wanted to stop believing. My choice was:- 1. Rawat was the Messiah and I would never be worthy of him. 2. Rawat wasn't the Messiah and I was free to live my life as my desires and conscience dictated. I chose 2, and subsequent evidence confirms I made the right choice, OR, the Perfect Master is so perverse that he deliberately makes it almost impossible to trust him in which case the Perfect Master can go fuck himself. John.
Modified by JHB at Mon, Feb 19, 2024, 11:16:01
|
|
|
|
|
Wow, I didn't realise that you had held on as a follower so long. I found this place I guess around 2 years later, so I didn't know your origin story.
The way I got over my brainwashed fear back in the 1980s was similar. It was like there was this internal argument going on inside my head. One side was saying, "This is crazy, there is so much hypocrisy, manipulation and Maharaji is just downright self-centred and abusive. Get the hell out."
Then the other frightened irrational side was saying, "But what if he really is ..." So it was almost like a Jedi mind trick I did to myself to overcome the fear. Like you, I just said to myself, "Well if this is what God is about, he creates an entire universe, creates pain and suffering where the only way out is to worship him and be a slave to him complete with his abusive and nasty behaviour, just to appease his pathological narcissism, than I would rather just burn in hell."
It worked. I was out and never turned back for a second. And yeah, those were just silly, irrational and empty fears anyway. Taking my power back and taking responsibility for my life has been uphill ever since.
|
|
|
|
Back in the early 2000s, the ex-premies here were basically focused on two things (besides arguing about inane topics). First expose the truth that Prem and co were so determined to bury. Secondly to help premies who, after discovering the truth, wanted out and needed some hand-holding.
Online searches for things related to the cult at the time were pretty much 50/50 cult whitewash and ex-premie exposé. But after a while it seemed that those who wanted out were out and the rest were lifers who would never leave. And importantly it seemed to us the the cult was dying anyway so it was just a matter of time.
Plus we could not match the resources the cult was throwing at their all the websites that were springing up and their full-time efforts at search engine optimisation. We had better things to spend our time with. So the energy and attention put into the forum and other platforms died out. I often wondered why you kept this place going, but there were still the odd stragglers who wandered here from time to time so it seemed a good thing. That was maybe 10-15 years ago.
Fast forward to now. Surprisingly the cult has managed to successfully repackage itself and found a resurgence in new members so it would seem. On top of that, this new terribly dark information directly from Prem' Rawat's own son Hans and Hans' wife Shana comes out.
Well thankfully you did keep this joint running. It has become more urgent than ever to expose Rawat as the danger to society that he truly is.
|
|
|
|
The first time I saw the original EPO site was in the early 2000's. I was not online yet, and someone handed me a laptop at a family gathering and told me to search anything I wanted on this new thing called the internet.Being a good premie, I typed in rawats name and up popped EPO! My first reaction was that I had stumbled onto what I eventually called "premie porn"! Was I supposed to be looking at this? Was this ok? Would it put me in my mind? Who put this stuff up? What were the consequences of my looking at it? And that was the first major crack in the facade, the first major "drip" for me. And the first time I posted, wow, that was challenging! And liberating!
What I realized was that this was the first time I could actually converse with other premies (most of them were now ex-premies) in a normal, non cult like setting I soon began to realize that mr. rawat was not enlightening me or liberating me in some way, he was actually teaching me how to stay in his clutches as his devotee! The rest as they say, is history....
And then, when Roger eDrek's "boob site" of rawat came out, well that really was premie porn, I suppose... And TED Farkel, for those who remember, helped me along the road to recovery as well....
|
|
|
|
All your questions .. yes, it felt like I was on a porn site which I was NOT supposed to see. AT ALL! It nearly felt 'sinful' to read even one more line than the headline!
And my ensuing thought process: practically identical to yours!
May Truth prevail!!! (new-speak for jai satchitanand) LOL
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
LOL this is all so true. And Drek and proving someone might not burst into flames for making such a thing.
I remember too, exactly where I was when I first posted. It was a big old desktop the whole family fought over, especially my teenagers. I made my first posts and couldn't believe, I had finally found some place to talk about this thing that had impacted my life so much.
And my teenage son really wanted the computer and was bugging me to get off and super annoyed looming over my shoulder and doing those usual teenage things to get mom to do what he wanted and think it was her idea.
So I went to bed. But didn't answer his questions about what I was looking at. I was too embarrassed.
The next morning when he is at school I log on again. remember the sound of logging on back then?
And there my son is on the forum. Asking everyone what the heck is this thing his mother won't tell him, It's all memorialized as the tale of Gunther Glockenspiel.
Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 01:35:41 (EDT)
Poster: Gunther Glockenspiel
Email:
To: Everyone
Subject: Why?
Message: My parents were involved with the Divine Light cult. I am about 17 now and my mom pretty much ended contact with the cult before I was born, my dad (who I am not on good terms with) might stilled have a connection. My mom is a little reluctant or ashamed to answer why she thought Mahaji(sp.) was some sort of God. So I thought I would put the question to you folks. I personally can't understand it and want to look at it from somebody who might want to talk about it so I can spare myself from getting my brain washed. Anything you could tell me whould be much appreciated and I look forward to the replies. Thank you for my time. Do you think my name sounds to fake? I do.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index
|
Date: Sat, May 10, 1997 at 02:31:47 (EDT)
Poster: JW
Email:
To: Gunther Glockenspiel
Subject: Re: Why?
Message:
My parents were involved with the Divine Light cult. I am about 17 now and my mom pretty much ended contact with the cult before I was born, my dad (who I am not on good terms with) might stilled have a connection. My mom is a little reluctant or ashamed to answer why she thought Mahaji(sp.) was some sort of God. So I thought I would put the question to you folks. I personally can't understand it and want to look at it from somebody who might want to talk about it so I can spare myself from getting my brain washed. Anything you could tell me whould be much appreciated and I look forward to the replies. Thank you for my time. Do you think my name sounds to fake? I do. That is the $64,000 question. I think most premies in the past really believed Guru Maharaj Ji was god, mostly because he said so. I know I certainly did. No wait, he actually said he was GREATER than god. He also allowed himself, without comment, to be called Lord of the Universe, Satguru, The Perfect Master of Our Time (who was in the same league as Jesus Christ, Lord Krishna, Lord Buddha, and Mohammad.) So, I guess that's where the idea came from. It was always kind of confusing because he always referred to himself in the third person. Napoleon also did that.
Since 99.9% of his devotees never talked to Guru Maharaj Ji directly, never knew him personally at all, and only saw him a couple times a year on huge thrones in front of thousands of adoring premies (or in darshan lines where thousands of people were bending over and kissing his feet), and since he NEVER did anything to dispell, or correct if it wasn't true, the widespread belief that he was god, people tended to hold on to that belief. Even intelligent people from degrees from Ivy League schools like me, and OP, who also posts on this site held that belief.
But, apparently, after 1985, Maharaj Ji decided he didn't want to be anymore, or that he never really was, god. AND instead of even bothering to explain what happened prior to 1985, he just dropped the whole thing and now presents himself as a sort of extremely wealthy meditation teacher who communicates through the use of videos and international festivals in places like Australia.
Seriously, as nutty as the above explanation sounds, I firmly believe it to be the case. I don't blame your mother. I have been embarrassed for years to tell people about who or what I thought Guru Maharaj Ji was and that I followed and dedicated my life to him for 10 years. It's kind of confronting to have to admit that to anyone.
Back To Index -:- Top of Index |
|
|
|
|
Wow, that was before my time. Such a great story.
I can't approach that, but ... well my wife had watched the Netflix documentary today about that awful Twin Flames cult and starts searching about cults afterwards, and in the process Prem Guru Maharaji.
So I am in the kitchen trying to do the dishes and she keeps screaming all of these things to me from the other room. Like "Now he is telling people that the only purpose in life is to worship the Perfect Master all day long (from the 70s)". Then she watches a new video, "But that is not even true, children aren't just peaceful if you leave them alone. They also sometimes beat the crap out of each other (she is a teacher)".
Then she stumbles onto EPO and starts looking at that. So I show her the "Best of the Forum" section where a post about her is featured. It is probably the best post I ever wrote and only because it was basically just quoting what she had said. It was just after I had discovered the forum. I was also really embarrassed about my time in the cult and this was my coming out session to her. Last night I went to dinner with my wife and explained to her this whole M business. Although I had mentioned it to her before, I never went into the details. I must say, I felt like a complete idiot. She shortly made mincemeat out of it, pointing out inconsistencies that I had never really paid attention to. After about two hours, she was finally able to understand how this thing could actually work on someone, especially if they are young. I repeat some of her observations. Perhaps they are useful.1. A "master" or teacher or whatever M would like to call himself is in both western and eastern cultures normally someone who has studied something for a long time in an advanced way, and consequently is in a position to show other people something they don't know. For someone to be a boy master automatically suggests divinity or in the very least some kind of special powers (like the psychic children in the movie "Matrix" . 2. If you are shown K from an instructor, this means either K was given to you from the instructor and really has nothing to do with M, or once again, if there is a connection to M, there is some kind of divinity or magic going on (I believe the term was grace). There is no way getting around this, otherwise every instructor could more or less start their own "mission". Is this why M decided in the 80s that only he should give K? 3. She (my wife) was really annoyed with the fact that if there was supposed to be this perpetual lineage of perfect masters, why had we only heard of like at the most 5 of them. Why had she never heard of Shri Hans for example. I mean how can it be that god comes to Earth and nobody knows? 4. She was also really annoyed with the fact that the "power" was inherited by his son (like a kingdom) and not to one of his advanced pupils. Also a good point and not very credible. 5.She wanted to know why "god" had such a fondness for the Indian continent, and with one big exception of course, ignored the rest of the world. I know these perfect master idiocyncracies were discussed back then and given some bizarre explanations. One might say they are irrelevant today, however I think that many followers still believe in the perfect master myth despite what is publically said. PS: she wants to know if she gets money for that.
Modified by aunt bea at Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 15:35:17
|
|
|
|
These stories are so great. The washing the dishes part while she screams "he said...."???!!! from the other room had me grinning from ear to ear. That really is a little Gunther Glockenspiel surreal.
Her finding your posts about her reaction is priceless and I love it.
|
|
|
|
Here's a story that happened to me which definitely caused a "drip", but still didn't knock me out of premie land quite yet....I was a devoted premie living on the east coast and I decided to visit one of my oldest, best friends, a devoted premie on the west coast. He lived in Malibu, and over a number of years had wiggled his way into quite a nice position around the residence. He had a girlfriend who was one of Marolyn's best friends. He and his girl friend dabbled in many "healing arts" which were a conglomeration of new age practices that they shared and used with Marolyn and other important PAM's (person around maharaji-basically, premie VIP's). I don't think much of that stuff actually did much in terms of real healing, but they dabbled in it and got to see Marolyn, some of the kids and rawat himself, sometimes in intimate settings with just a few PAM's. He had himself a nice gig, that's for sure! And it took him and his girlfriend many years and lots of inside premie politicking to get there! So, my first night out there my friend says to me "let me introduce you to my girlfriend and we'll all go out and eat dinner at someplace nice". This sounded good to me, and a few hours later the 3 of us were dining at a restaurant in Malibu. The problem was that they were both "X-rated" (meaning they know inside stuff that others don't) while I wasn't. My friend's girlfriend assumed that I was X-rated. (I wasn't and had no idea what that was, or that there was a need to be x-rated, because I thought maharaji was a "squeaky clean" family man). So, the girlfriend proceeds to tell this story from the night before when maharaji returned from a long trip and had a party with some local PAM's. She tells, in great detail, how maharaji got stinking drunk, was falling all over the place, slurring his words, making a fool of himself, and eventually had to be literally carried upstairs by a few premies who placed him in bed to sleep off his drunken stupor. She is telling this in great detail, while my friend is squirming around and trying to signal to her to shut up. I'm sitting there wide eyed, hearing this x-rated tale for the first time. She also talked about how common an occurrence this is with maharaji. A few awkward minutes later, the girlfriend gets up to use the bathroom. I'm sitting there, eyes as big as saucers, and I simply say to my good friend, "What was that all about?" After pretending that my question never happened, avoiding any eye contact with me for what seemed like an endless amount of time, he simply replied, with a sheepish grin, that "someone popped open a bottle of champagne to celebrate the trip, and maharaji got a "little tipsy", because he never drinks. He then showed someone something upstairs in the bedroom. That was it. I sat in stunned silence. I knew what I heard the first time. The girlfriend returned, and my friend encouraged us to talk about something else, like art, for the rest of the dinner. Art. Something none of us knew anything about. But it took our minds off the previous topic. It was a drip. A big drip. But it still took a bit longer for it to all to sink in.
Modified by 1972 at Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 18:11:23
|
|
|
|
That is one intense story.
and weird, so the residence staff gossips about him in his absence. I guess I have heard that before, the gossip about his bad behavior by the residence crew. Never heard that as a premie. Still really weird.
It's sort of sickening really.
I read your story and the term "family man" jumped out at me. I remember clearly hearing that term in the kitchen of the Brickell Ave Miami ashram, from Randy Prouty "Maharaj Ji's a family man".
I would have been 13 and it would have been 1975 strange that I recall this at all. I have a feeling I may have never heard the term before, and maybe it seemed odd because I flashed on Leave it to Beaver or the Brady Bunch and it just seemed on odd term for the superior power in person.
Prem would have been a 17 year old family man that year.
Modified by Susan at Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 20:35:16
|
|
|
|
"maharaji got stinking drunk, was falling all over the place, slurring his words, making a fool of himself, and eventually had to be literally carried upstairs by a few premies who placed him in bed to sleep off his drunken stupor"
I can't rememer if it was Michael Dettmers or Michael Donner who witnessed the same thing... on many occasions.
And let's not forget that Jasper witnessed Prem staggering down the stairway of his premie funded Gulfstream G6x, Monica in tow, and stumbling drunk into the backseat of an automobile (driven by Jasper). Stooping over and sluring his words.
Probably smoking at the same time. I'm familiar with the unmistakable odor af alcohol and tobacco because my mother did the same thing.
To think I must've sang "You are my mother" during Arti at least 6,000 times over nearly ten years in the ashram. At least there were similarities.
Modified by lakeshore at Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 12:33:58
|
|
|
|
And this is my reply to JHB and another big thank you as well.
I'm setting-up a typical 2007 premie intro event. I overhear the mention of the ex-premie site between two others. "What's that?," I asked. She paused for a long moment, looked up at me slowly and gave me a serious look. Then she s l o w l y lowered her head and shook it back and forth as if to say "no." All she said was "Don't go there." End of conversation.
A year of so later when a waterfall of drips forced me to take my first peek, among others, I was quickly overwhelmed by the Donners, Dettmers, Cynthias, Karens, Ockers, 13s, Lps and NIKs of the world. Suddenly, the unthinkable... one of them revealed the techniques! "Oh my god! What have I done!! I've fallen-in with the wrong crowd!" I got over it pretty quickly when I realized that as with any contract or agreement, a promise, especially an uninformed promise, made in furtherance of a crime or fraud is null and void. I believe they call it the crime/fraud exception.
One clear recollection was how utterly incapable I felt when it came to engaging on the same logical, intellectual level as the likes of JHB and aunt bea. Those muscles had completely atrophied into flab while I was in that cult.
Then there was the day I posted something about the perennial subject of fear. Like Zeus out of the sky on a thunderous bolt of lightning, JHB, in what to me at the time was his deep, authoritative voice said "Nothing bad is going to happen." Chisel it in stone and take it to the mountain top.
And TED!! Who can forget the image of TED and his buddies out behind the woodshed beating out Arti on a bunch of rusty old moonshine barrels!
Then there was me, misty-eyed as I wrote my first post. I desperately wanted the posters at the time to know that I'd been lurking every day for many weeks and how much they meant to me.
"Shining stars in my new bright sky," I believe were the words I came-up with.
Modified by lakeshore at Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 07:59:15
|
|
|
|
this is priceless--
"I'm setting-up a typical 2007 premie intro event. I overhear the mention of the ex-premie site between two others. "What's that?," I asked. She paused for a long moment, looked up at me slowly and gave me a serious look. Then she s l o w l y lowered her head and shook it back and forth as if to say "no." All she said was "Don't go there." End of conversation."
I think we need to all sit around the campfire at a Latvian and tell these stories again. I might consider paying Aunt Bea's wife but I would definitely pony up quite a bit for the footage of that slow shake of the head and don't go there. What a story!
|
|
|
|
I agree! My first adventure into the ex world was to see e-drek's boob mala picture. I giggled a little uncomfortably, and thought, how silly/stupid.A year or so later I was listening to Daya's music. I wanted to see if I just liked it because it was devotional, or if anyone in the music business had done any reviews of it. What came up when I searched was stuff from this Forum. ALL THE S**T ABOUT JAGDEO!!! I was up all night reading Dettmers, Donner and all the rest! The veil was lifted, I was in deep shock! Friends were very supportive. Then the anger set in. Thanks John for not banning me for cussing in red, extra bold, super large font! LOL!!! Memories of my early days here! So glad I stayed. I feel like we are a ragtag bunch of broken misfits with outsized courage and big hearts. And with this proof on tape, the ketchup is hitting the walls of the Malibu Palace! Well, Maybe chutney.
"Karma's a bitch only if you are." "Instant Karma's gonna get you." "Karma has no expiration date."
Me, dancing on the ashes of his paper dragon empire. I feel it burning. He should NEVER have pissed off Bhilni! He should never have pissed off and pissed on the thousands of sincere devotees that gave crucial years of their lives, efforts, money, energy, innocence, and their all to a fat bloated piece of empty drunken narcissistic NOTHING!!!
Karen.
Logout KarenK
| | Time to re-post this as I had a hard time finding it. I haven't kept a copy of it.
Bhilni's Poem
I live in a hut at the edge of a clearing
In summer the brook almost runs out
The autumn leaves are dry as I sweep the walk
Waiting for You
I didn't notice the years, but one day
The still waters showed gray hairs and a withered body
I live in the corner of this hut
The rest, O Lord, is Yours
The plums are ripening just now
And the blackberries
Again I will test them for sweetness
And set the table for You
Is it this morning?
Maybe this noon
When the sun is mellowing
Or as the stars poke out of that blue You make at the edge of night
Will I hear Your step?
I light a small fire, make your tea, sing Arti
Comb out my braid and offer You my meditation
One day You will come
Hot and dusty, or bitten by the wind
You will find me ready to receive You
Bhilni says, Oh foolish world
I would trade this life for no other
My heart burns a hole through the sun
|
Modified by KarenK at Tue, Feb 20, 2024, 17:30:07
|
|
|
|
Imaginary lovers.... what a fool believes... everybody plays the fool
That poem is painful to read.
|
|
|
|
painful to read nails it
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
Ash and Susan,Yes. Sad indeed. I was 100% sincere about living the essence of that poem every day! Year in and out building up to the crescendo of 1979 string of caravan programs mostly on the West coast leading up to Hans Jayanti. I am embarrassed to confess that during that time I insisted on setting a place at the table for "Him" and placing a portion of our dinner every night. I was criticized by the other premies. Presented with logical arguments about waste etc. One night after satsang, I was polishing the China and silverware, and I took a small hard green apple, washed and carefully dried it. I put it on his plate. I then went out and walked the neighborhood, raiding neighbors roses. I came in, clipped and arranged 2 vases. I looked at the plate, it was empty!!!!!! The apple was gone! I froze. The only sound was a quiet gait of a single person walking away from the house. I took the remaining petals off the rose stems and scattered them from the dining room out the front door and down the walkway. I then went to sleep. Next morning all hell broke lose! I told someone what happened and after intense interrogation, maybe one parson believed me. "Are you sure you didn't just EAT the apple and forgot you ate it?" That kind of shit. Over and over for what seemed like hours. Finally I was left alone. Was it a visitation? Did I generate something of a "mind over matter" incident? I will never know. I just know it actually did happen. Out of that came the writing of the Bhilni poem. Bhilni shows up for a couple of pages in the 3,000 page epic of the Ramayana. Then came the Hans Jayanti festival. I was given the service of attending to the "fainters" post darshan. I ended up there myself. At the end of the festival the night climaxed with Prem doing the mala dance with the crowd ramped up to a devotional frenzy. I pranamed into the mud offering my soul with my whole being to completely merge with him...... Nothing happened. I felt really empty. I blamed myself that I wasn't chosen for ascension. So there it is...... I have never told this to anyone. Tears are in my eyes at the depth of my (stupid) sincerity and the completeness of both my abject debasement and the totality the betrayal. So when I talk about soul rape, I REALLY MEAN IT! No wonder I have been furious at Prem all these years. Please someone, tell me a really funny story about Prem slipping in a mud puddle or farting in the middle of a darshan line or something! I really need it.
Karen
|
|
|
|
...did it take you to completely walk away from him? This was the perfect opportunity which your 'inner being' created for you to free yourself from this unhealthy (toxic) relationship thing.
I will tell you a funny story, as soon as I remember one. Might take a while.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
The ashram closed in '83. For some reason I stayed with it, hoping the super devotional era would resume. I didn't really have anywhere to go. No career skills, life skills, relationship skills. When the ashram closed I was ready to go, but where? I found a room to sublet. Turned out the man had received k and viewed it as fake. I drifted along and then moved from Santa Monica to Asheville NC as my parents and brother moved there. I found the premies there to be people I didn't want to be around. Smoking a lot of dope, spouse swapping, families breaking up etc. I still drifted along with this vague hope of the return of the devotional times. I got on with my life, enrolled in Culinary School, got married and didn't really think about Prem much until I came across all the discussions on the Forum around 2000.
|
|
|
|
Please allow another question: While you had already moved on with your life, did you consider yourself to still be a premie or not?
I also moved on with my life - because I was always one of those who couldn't go devotional 100% (like I told I think it was on Shana's FB site). So I was half-in and half-out. But with my kids growing up I found more free time for me and went to quite a few "programs" or 'festivals' ... and there joined the translator crew which I enjoyed quite a bit - one of the reasons being that you didn't have to run or quarrel for a *good seat*, and there was always the chance that M would speak during your shift, and actually, he was the easiest one to translate (obviously because he would always talk the same old, same old; sometimes in a "new dress". But when he began a sentence, it was easy to guess how he would end it ... I mention that because sentences in English are built in a different order than in German and you could not really know what the meaningful verb in the end would be ... In German this verb comes at an earlier spot, hence the guessing at which I really was good.) *giggle ... so my premiedom to me was kind of like belonging to an exquisite club of wonderful people, and I had some really good times there.) So, when I stumbled over the epo sites on the internet, after the first shock, I got really interested in what made ppl 'throw dirt at M'. I couldn't understand it at first - and only after some weeks + months of reading and posting here in this forum it dawned on me that the ashram premies were really *effed* by him. He was not the nice uncle to tell you nice fairy tales so the bad ghosts flee out of your closet.... But my good fate allowed me to learn this lesson the soft way. (My hard lessons all came in the context of my day-to-day life, and I was not short of hard lessons. Just not with M.) EDIT: So, to round things up and make the circle to my question to you complete, I told you all this .... and the only important thing I should have told you (and spared you a long sermon) is: Yes, during all my time as a *fringe premie* I still considered myself to be a premie.
Getting out and considering myself an ex-p needed some inner work and then a conscious, firm resolution.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
Modified by Ash at Wed, Feb 21, 2024, 16:23:21
|
|
|
|
Hi Ash. I went to a few programs with Prem. I did a little local service, but I really didn't like the vibes of the people setting up local programs. Stiffs and cultish. I still had an altar to Prem with the photos, the toe jam juice, a silk sock of his etc. A book I made with his photos and my sappy devotional poems. I would meditate sometimes, but not regularly. I really didn't think about him much. I think I think about him more now than I did then. But, seeing that it is mostly driven by anger, this is not a very healthy thing.
|
|
|
|
Did or even: do you still consider yourself to be a premie or did you somewhere along the way decide that "this is it for me, bye bye"??
What made or makes you so angry about him?
Pls excuse these many questions - if you feel they are too personal or I am kind of intruding, then pls let me know and I will stop it. I just find it a fascinating way to get to know you. Especially: who is this woman who was able to not only write this poem but also kind of live it (embody it)??
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
Ash these questions are fine. I think I considered myself a premie until I exed out due to the forum. The anger comes from the deep betrayal of giving myself so deeply to him for so long. I made a lifetime vow to him, with no thought of caring for myself and how I would ever survive on my own, as I never expected to have to live on my own. At age 30 I was cast out into the world with no life skills, no education, no ability to work beyond minimum wage cooking jobs. I was very stunted in my emotional maturity. It ruined several relationships, including my marriage. I was still a twenty year old in every way except physically. I didn't know how to navigate in the world. Also, having no medical care for ten years didn't adversely effect me too much, luckily, but having no dental care for ten years resulted in the loss of my teeth. I have dentures now. Economically, this impacted me severely. I have retired with no pension and a meager social security payment, due in part for having not paid into SS for the ten years in the ashram. Is that enough to be resentful for? I have a lot of personal emotional work to do, but nothing will give me my teeth back. Nothing will increase my Social Security payment beyond living in poverty. Each month I have to be frugal and juggle things to get through. I blame Prem for using me to build his billion dollar empire. What do you blame him for? Karen
|
|
|
|
...blame him for too many things. In my world (back then) he was like The Pied Piper who took all my friends away and never brought them back. But then, I cannot really discern what was the reason for the end of our hippie trippy flippy scene. Was it really him? Or was it just the dynamics of the early 70s?
Before I decided to "try out" life with K, I made sure I had built some internal security mechanisms in order to protect myself and, above all, my child. In retrospect, I come to the conclusion, that it was my child protecting me (from him)!! I was not allowed to move into an ashram though that life style looked kind of nice from the outside: a group of ppl living together in a small community, but a bigger unit than a normal family would be ... that was very appealing to an old hippie soul! Thank God I just had finished my university education and thus a good basis to build my life on - at least so I thought.
What frightened me most respectively made me insecure was the possibility of ending up like those "children of God" or these "Hare Krishna ppl" flooding the streets back then.... and in my eyes made fools of themselves - also their severe rules (hare krishnas) were not appealing at all for me. And the danger of getting sucked into a cult? Well I was aware that it might be a possibility, but then, I thought I have my own head and can think and see and hear for myself. I would surely realize it before it came to that, not? The danger of giving everything away to a cult was non-existent, he had promised his K would be free, and I decided to take him by his words and never ever gave any money for any of his "causes", and as to "propagation" on the Streets - not my style, no thanks. I tried to keep up my independence and also my critical thinking. Nonetheless I was sucked into that whole thing, it was just like a mass hysteria among the premies and its flames were fanned by the mahatmas touring the country. So, slowly but surely I was one of those naive kids who believed what he and his mahatmas were telling us. My motivation to stay in the cult, was his promise that he could "show me God".
It took me quite a few (i.e. many!) years to understand that it was *not my fault* that this never happened. I always thought that I didn't meditate enough or perhaps not really correctly ... or whatever. However, I enjoyed the company of the premies around me, and so I lived the half-hippie-half-premie lifestyle of those days.
The hardships which you (and probably many of your fellow citizens) had to go through due to a completely imperfect social system were not a danger for us. In Germany, if you get a job, you automatically get social security, and if you don't work for some time, you're kind of out of the system, and then: not really. We had a wonderful social state system back then (by the 90s it was exploited by greedy politicians though), and at the end of our work life, we would get a pension according to how many months we had worked and how much we had earned. The SS fee was automatically deducted from our salary, so we didn't even have a choice to not have SS. So basically, you could not really fall into bad poverty or so. There would always be a mechanism to avert the risk, and basically, in Germany it was hard to starve --- you would have to actively try but chances were, there would always be someone (or some institution) to help you back on your feet.
So anyway, I was aware of all these things and prudent enough not to allow myself to ever even get close to any desperate situation. I worked whatever work was there for me, and by my mid 30s I realized "If I have to waste my days with working for our living anyway, I can as well strive for a career." Which then I did and rather successfully so over the years --- and thus, I always was capable of narrowly avoiding desaster.
So - ex-ing for me was a different process as I couldn't really blame anything on M ... for me it was all my own decision. Only reading here on the forum about the fate of all you ashram premies or other full-time devotees, made me understand what was *really* going on behind the scenes, that M is NOT Mr. Niceguy, never was and never will be - on the contrary, the latest revelations show that he was and is much worse than I could have imagined in my wildest nightmares!
So - while I am not personally angry with him, in my eyes, he failed the test of life, by 1000 per cent! I have no personal anger towards him, but am appalled and look at him & his wife full of contempt.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
Modified by Ash at Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 03:39:41
|
|
|
|
Hundres of them actually.
"At age 30 I was cast out into the world with no life skills, no education, no ability to work beyond minimum wage... stunted in my emotional maturity... a twenty year old in every way... didn't know how to navigate in the world... no medical care for ten years..."
"Please someone, tell me a really funny story..."
"... a ragtag bunch of broken misfits with outsized courage and big hearts."
Your priceless Bhilni poem.
Where to begin?
I woke-up determined to think of a really funny story to tell you, like the time (as a community coordinator) I tried to skip satsang and borrow a nearby hotel's swimming pool and sauna... except that when I tried to smuggle my bag out of the ashram by tossing it out a window, it landed on the little roof overhanging the main entrance just before all the premies arrived for satsang.
Your quote above about the condition you were in when Prem Rawat put you and hundreds of others in that position without saying a word, without any acknowledgement, apology or so much as a penny of financial assistance after nearly 20% of all ashram income was handed over to him and his organization for an entire decade...
The only difference is in the way we describe it. I've used my "put out on the road * with no job, no money, no car and nothing but my tattered suitcase half full of Maharaji photos and magazines" schtick many times here, but yours's is much more accurate. Ragtag broken misfits with big hearts for sure. For me, however, the courage would come many years later and only as a result of the courage of people like you and others here who came before me.
Your cussing in "red, extra bold, super large font" was a source of great inspiration to me when I was lurking, in part because you were free to do it.
No, there's nothing funny about the devestating and ongoing mental, psychological and even physical harm and abuse suffered by countless ashram (and non-ashram) premies during that heavy devotional era and beyond. And as we now know, Prem's abuse of human beings wasn't limited to that.
Why do I say ongoing harm? The explanation lies in in part by the rationalizations and excuses that some of those premies will surely come-up with - and already have - for Prem and Marolyn's apparent sexual abuse and molestation of their own children as evidenced by Prem, Wadi and Daya's acknowledgement of it in a conversation recorded in 2019.
It might make you smile just a little to know that my photo of toe jam juice surrounded by all my proffered-up bare foot and Krishna crown photos and other cult paraphernalia somehow made it onto Shana Noel Rawat's Facebook page. It's still there, but you have to scroll down about a mile past all her other efforts to expose the cult for what it is. (She must've picked-it up from Prembio's website.)
Thank you so much, Karen. Really the only thing that comes to mind is kindred spirits.
* I even plagiarized that line from the movie Rain Man when Dustin Hoffman said "you put my underwear on the road" after Tom Cruise tossed it out of the top-down convertable they were driving in.
Modified by lakeshore at Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 07:46:55
|
|
|
|
Thank you, Bob. Every now and then something triggers me to tears and these last few days has been hard for me.
|
|
|
|
I believe that the notorious, infamous and traitor Gerry created that. I certainly don't have the skills to do that kind of work.
Also, I looked for it on my website and I could not find it. May it rest in peace.
|
|
|
|
Too bad you couldn't find it ... I would have appreciated to get a glance on it.
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
Oh gosh. That picture, that was Gerry? That made me remember Hilltop. He had a lot of creative hilarity too. Sometimes you need to laugh.
|
|
|
|
Now I think it is really funny. Too bad it is lost to time and premie suppression. Maybe it is somewhere to be found on the Wayback machine, if it still exists. I still want to give you credit!
|
|
|
|
Mr. eDrek-wow, I always thought you were the genius behind the boob/mala creation. I have to say, during those "white hot" days of anger during the first year of exing, the boob/mala thing got me laughing quite a few times. Funny how something so silly could have such a therapeutic effect on someone, but it was funny. I also heard that it really pissed off rawat, so that made it doubly entertaining.Those were the days....I think TED liked it too....I miss the boob/mala and that dude TED Farkel and his home spun wisdom...
|
|
|
|
The forum won't let me post a link
https://drek.org/pages/pics/thumbs/maharaji_mala_boob.shtml
And then the above link dies.
Modified by eDrek at Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 09:36:13
|
|
|
|
This is just a static image. Also, while it definitely would have been Gerry's humour to make this, did he really have the skills for that?
|
|
|
|
Are you still reading here?
Your husband isn't content with the boobs. He wants the jiggling boobs!
|
|
|
|
Well.....
I'll look again.
|
|
|
|
Ok, let's see if this works. The reason I couldn't find it is because years ago when I didn't have any money someone from Maharaj's staff offered me $50 to permanently remove the dancing tits. It was an offer I couldn't refuse.
Modified by eDrek at Thu, Feb 22, 2024, 14:00:45
|
|
|
|
Oh that's funny! 
|
|
|
|
...for finding both pics! I have never seen them be4, and they are so funny....
As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain, and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
Albert Einstein
Avoiding a problem does not make it go away, avoiding feeling does not make it go away either. (me)
|
|
|
|
you are my all... my lord to me...
|
|
|
|
It's actually a rather lovely mystical poem.
It still stands I think. All readers will insert their own 'You'
(maybe 'arti' needs to go though)
Modified by tommo at Fri, Feb 23, 2024, 16:36:00
|
|
|
|
Thanks. I need to spend some more time talking about my devotional experiences. There is a lot more behind that poem. I wrote some more poems, but they were sloppy drivel.
|
|
|
