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The recent post by Roark inspired me to post on this forum. My understanding was that Prem Rawat's bona fides as a guru arose from a set of inter-related claims: • He inherited the title of Perfect Master and unique Spiritual Power from his father who was the one and only manifestation of God in a human body on the planet before him. There was always one and only one of these Masters alive at any time.
• He was the sole bona fide source of the techniques of meditation that allowed people to attain enlightenment, realisation, love, peace, whatever you want to call it through their own effort. These techniques were worthless if taught by unauthorised people.
• He was the sole source of the spiritual grace that would empower the individual's attempts at meditation on the energy that created, preserved and destroyed the universe.
• Through his own effort in meditation he had attained an experience of life beyond the understanding of normal humans. He promised that, although he would always be unique and above all others, we too could attain the same experience. This experience was utterly beyond anything that could be imagined. I've never had any personal interactions with Rawat but I have held on to the idea that if I had first-hand knowledge of Prem Rawat's actual life I would never have become a premie but there was plenty of evidence along the way that this was not something true. I ignored it. He was a very young guru but the mediocrity of his stage persona was enough to reveal his phoniness. How is it that some people could see that Prem Rawat in person showed none of the positive qualities of a person who had "Realised Knowledge" - qualities that were discussed many times in satsang - and still worship him? Despite all the bullshit premies repeated, none of the first 3 claims that Rawat was the Perfect Master could be confirmed. His human qualities - his experience of life - was the only aspect able to be reliably judged by premies if they saw him up close. Only by using a strong set of concepts could his inadequacies and downright nastiness be explained away. "I was pimping for him when he was 13. I was buying him booze and dope even earlier." Rawat turned 13 on December 10, 1970 and arrived in the West on June 17,1971. Our informant has probably mistaken the age and dates. Could he really have been supplying Rawat with alcohol in India? Prostitutes? Rawat spent 1 month in England and then flew to USA and returned to India in November? Could he really have been supplying Rawat with alcohol and dope during this time? Prostitutes? Is he talking about Marolyn Johnson when he refers to pimping? "I don't think I ever had one ounce of blame aimed at him." When it comes to Divine Light Mission there's a lot of blame to go around but most of it goes to Rawat himself. If our informant can't see this then he certainly hasn't explored the depths of the theological and social perspectives involved. Just these 2 new additions to the list of Rawat's evils produces another mountain of blame. Rawat ordered lifestyles that created malnutrition in babies, he refused to allow any steps to alleviate the suffering of mentally ill premies whose problems were partly caused by the chimera promoted by Rawat of Knowledge being the cure-all and reason of existence and their frustrations in following this "path" to nowhere. What would it take for our informant to impute blame on Rawat? Everything we did as premies can be explained and explained away. But there is one thing that disappoints me to this day. I am sure that our informant didn't go to Satsang (the Company of Truth) that night and talk of his real experience any of those days: "Dear brothers and sisters, Jai Sat, Chit (Truth, Awareness), Anand. Today I was able to buy a really expensive bottle of cognac by His Grace and your darshan gifts and the Lord of the Universe skulled it down and was well and truly passed out by the time I left the Residence for satsang. I don't understand why the Perfect Master wants to get drunk as a skunk, piss his pants and vomit all over the carpet but I am just a humble premie. Tomorrow there will be service available at the Residence for presentable blonde sisters with toothbrushes and/or birth control." I won't try to satirise the other events mentioned. It should have been called Bakavasang – The Company of Bullshit. Real truth requires that there is no censorship, imposed or self-imposed.
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I think one explanation for why premies could see rawat do such vile things and still stay in the fold, was that it was most premies dream to get to the "inner circle" status one day with rawat, and once they got there, they weren't going to do anything to jeopardize their position with him...another reason was that some of them actually believed that his drunken behavior was his "lila"or play, or test of faith of some sort that they had to transcend in some way...another reason is that they compartmentalized it because they just couldn't deal with it in any rational way...we were all so young, naive and uninformed in those days...
Modified by la-ex at Thu, May 04, 2017, 18:19:05
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i agree with all you said 100%. Thats why i say - when i look back in my past with m - all i see is "a bad hair day"
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Welcome Rawatcher!
Our involvement in the cult required a continuous denial of judgement. When I 'received Knowledge' I was given a piece of paper which included the five commandments, one of which was 'Never leave room for doubt in your mind'. What a toxic notion!
I remember a load of us in an ashram listening to a cassette tape consisting mostly of Rawat giggling. He was 'blissed out'. Someone quietly suggested afterwards that he was stoned. Of course! But who were we to judge? With hindsight, who better? Later I heard stories of Rawat giving early premies in India strong dope and sending them on journeys. I took it as 'lila' and filed it away as beyond my own judgement.
That never leaving room for doubt - the suspension of judgement - allows us to file away uncomfortable facts and keep the faith. Rawat was an ignorant narcissistic bombastic buffoon, but we all managed to ignore the obvious flaws at least for a while. Having such people in leadership positions isn't unusual it seems. It's easy to turn a blind eye.
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This is a WAV file. So, you'll probably have to tell your computer to open it with some suitable player.
http://drek.org/pages/audio/maharaji_laughing.wav
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That's it, but it went on for way more than 2 seconds. But that's enough for now thanks.
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Hey Rawatcher, I liked your bullet points. Here are a few more related to how I view this Forum: 1.
GMJ is an asshole, that was able to capitalize
on: a.
His lineage, family ties and longstanding religious
tradition b.
His sociopathic behavior that served to actually
enhance the opaqueness he needed to preserve his credibility as ‘Perfect
Master’ c.
An interwoven set of guiding principles that supported
the abandonment of common sense and limitation of personal growth d.
The tidal wave of interest in Indiology and
self-realization in the West, particularly in the wake of the early
psychotropic drug culture e.
Our youth and naiveté 2.
For most of us here, our involvement spanned
years and was an integral part of our lives, which finally resulted in: a.
Seeing the problems b.
Recognizing the need to get clear of him & the
cult c.
The need to revisit and process (to the extent
possible) our experiences, ideas and feelings, to heal and grow d.
The need to move on, rebuilding atrophied
aspects of our lives in a healthier way I mean, this involved large chunks of our lives, and my own focus
in what I have posted seems to run towards recognizing the value of and hopefully
how to preserve the more constructive aspects of what occurred. My perspective is tilted towards someone that
wakes up and starts to smell the coffee, but sits on the fence, perhaps quietly
terrified that the choice may have to be all or nothing with respect to what to
keep or leave behind. My own inner process and “spiritual” development was all
tangled up with him and the attendant philosophy. I felt it was important for me to not dissociate
from a large chapter of my life, and run the risk of negating what truly might be of
value. So as embarrassing as it was to
see what happened t o me more clearly, I didn’t want to become jaded, and disconnected
from my passion to deepen and explore awareness. And so of course it is completely accurate to lay blame on
Rawat his role at the very front of the flying wedge of folly (and an essential part
of moving on), I try not to dwell on it.
I do try to dwell on what I can control though, such as my own
responsibility for my life. Focusing on
my own responsibility does not mean that I don’t recognize the responsibility held
by others. And yes, this did happen a long time ago and so the emotions are dulled. I think that probably everything said now on the Forum has
been said slightly differently by many over a period of years, including 100%
of anything I have written. But I think
there is a noble purpose in continuing to say it, especially to benefit those that remain
in the sway of Perfect Masterism, start to recognize they are on a treadmill and have the audacity to peek onto this website. I’d love to see folks like Marolyn finally get the courage
and resolve to come clean and tell their stories here, because it would matter
(especially to her). As difficult as it
might be for her, I'll bet a huge weight would be lifted. M
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I think in the same way a blacksmith's son might become enlightened helping his father out in the forge, Prem Rawat learned the skills of his trade from his father. He understood, with his father's help, that it was a con - he didn't actually have to be wise, just call himself the lord of the universe, and pretend to be wise.
He learnt how to put on the stage show and he learned how to handle his devotees from his father and it wasn't difficult, he was a natural like his father before him.
To me the good thing about having joined a cult, the one positive is in the leaving of it. I lost the lot, I don't have Buddhist Quote calendars, or believe the yoga teacher is wise and I do believe that Himalayan Rock Salt is worse than normal salt because it's been dyed pink.
I'm the baby in the bathwater.
And like Lexy I feel sick at the thought of bumping into Rawat. He is definitely yuck not yum.
I wonder if the reason sometimes a person sees through it when others don't is because they see him act in some way that triggers a memory of someone else and you know it's not something spiritual, it's Rawat being mean.
The person who could see that Rawat was stoned from the giggling - maybe he'd heard that stoned and taking the piss giggle before.
I know the point at which I saw through it, (27 years later) he was interacting with a small group of premies, even tho I was standing at a distance and couldn't hear what he was saying, what I was looking at, it just reminded me of someone else and I could see he was being mean to them.
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GREAT post, couldn't be clearer
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That's a great post Roark. Especially the second half.
Regarding the first half , Rawat was also able to capitalise on our limited possibilities to communicate with each other en masse and anonymously. In other words we were nowhere near the age of the Internet. When that did finally arrive I seem to remember Rawat discouraging us from using it ! Well he would wouldn't he ?
Modified by lexy at Sun, May 07, 2017, 15:25:53
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Lexy
That is an interesting point! What it would have been like there with ubiquitous internet access??, total game changer that it is.
I left well before the advent of cell phones, and so don't know what happened.
I got what I think was one of the first mobile phones on the market when they started to come out, with its own hard shell brief case, then one of those ten-pound Motorola babies with the big antennae, thought I was cool.
I just heard a statistic that we are going from 2 Billion mobile phones to over Five Billion in the next few years. I am constantly trying to track the causes and effects of digital acceleration, mind-blowing.
M
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That is a great post. Thank you.
I would add another factor in the first part. This group provided a big "family". One that I could and did fit in for many years. Even though this was fictional also, it did play a role, at least for me...and am sure for many as well. It was fictional as I saw on many instances that there was no real support at all. So maybe a huge dusfunctional family!
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Hi Inis, Thanks, and yes, I totally forgot that aspect,
the need for family / tribe / sangha, and how getting suddenly smushed together
in ashrams and such created a sort of family, unified by our common objective
and playing on that basic human requirement. And yes, dysfunctional family, and at the end of
the day, less committed to each other’s well-being than to the guru and our own
‘spiritual’ neediness. Also, getting a bunch of earnest people in the
same room, quietly focused on a speaker and agreeing with the message created a palpable
energy, and our concentration amplified our ability to feel it. At least for
me, I would almost always walk out of the nightly satsang problems feeling
really energized and great. This communal amplification helped to reinforce the belief system and perpetuate
the guru myth, particularly the experience of the huge programs. It also seemed that the closer one got to GMJ's person,
the more neediness and dysfunction would arise, giving rise to the technical
term “clusterfuck”. Nice to see you on the Forum, Warm regards, Mike
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Hi Mike,
Thank you for your reponse and welcome. " clusterfuck " ? Never came across that term before..can you elaborate?
As far as the dysfunction associated with closeness to Rawat, I can only agree.
The madness in the eyes of some who would come back to the laundry room in Malibu, "blissed" out for having just seen " him ". The dropping of any valid way to sustain oneself financially because most of them would have conflicted with the ability to keep on "doing service" and all the rest of it. The lack of social integration beyond the circle of our coockoos ' s nest.
The list could go on.
Advanced dysfunction and insanity.
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Hi Mike,
Thank you for your reponse and welcome. " clusterfuck " ? Never came across that term before..can you elaborate?
As far as the dysfunction associated with closeness to Rawat, I can only agree.
The madness in the eyes of some who would come back to the laundry room in Malibu, "blissed" out for having just seen " him ". The dropping of any valid way to sustain oneself financially because most of them would have conflicted with the ability to keep on "doing service" and all the rest of it. The lack of social integration beyond the circle of our coockoos ' s nest.
The list could go on.
Advanced dysfunction and insanity.
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Inis, I think 'clusterfuck' is a good (humorously) descriptive term for a
complicated set of events that create a really screwed up situation (not actually
a technical term). A few of the dynamics clustered at the feet of the Lord are the angst-ridden need
to be close to him, the (neurotic) perfection-seeking work ethic (heaven forbid a faint (ironing) double-crease!), the massive ego trip of perceiving oneself as very special by
their proximity to the Lord of the Universe, the abnegation of one's one
personal needs, frequently the abnegation of the needs of one's own family and
loved ones, competition to be best devotee, not to mention the very real lovely
feelings that arise (even blissfulness) in the context of being there, etc I find it nothing less than amazing that our experience can be so
dictated by our attitude and mental constructs.
We become our very own Skinner's dog. One would think that all that peace within, vis-a-vis the practice
of Knowledge, would take the edge off the addictive need for 'darshan', and the
tendency to contort our living circumstances to accommodate it. And then we fucking die!
Not even a promise of heaven (circa Christian salvation doctrines), no
liberation, just 'PEACE' that never even becomes permanent feature of our
experience, even after forty fucking years.
What else am I missing here? M
Modified by roark at Mon, May 22, 2017, 11:52:34
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Hahaha...well put.
Clusterfuck all right.
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Inis, I think 'clusterfuck' is a good, humorously descriptive term for a
complicated set of events that create a really screwed up situation (not actually
a technical term). A few of the dynamics clustered at the feet of the Lord are the angst-ridden need
to be close to him, the (neurotic) perfection-seeking work ethic (heaven forbid a faint ironing double-crease!), the massive ego trip of perceiving oneself as very special by
their proximity to the Lord of the Universe, the abnegation of one’s one
personal needs, frequently the abnegation of the needs of one’s own family and
loved ones, competition to be best devotee, not to mention the very real lovely
feelings that arise (even blissfulness) in the context of being there, etc I find it nothing less than amazing that our experience can be so
dictated by our attitude and mental constructs.
We become our very own Skinner’s dog. One would think that all that peace within, vis-a-vis the practice
of Knowledge, would take the edge off the addictive need for 'darshan', and the
tendency to contort our living circumstances to accommodate it. And then we fucking die!
Not even a promise of eternal heaven (circa Judeo-Christian salvation doctrines), no
liberation, just ‘PEACE’ that never even becomes permanent feature of our
experience, even after forty fucking years. What else am I missing here? M
Modified by roark at Mon, May 22, 2017, 12:54:51
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