New Post

Reload

Overview
 
Chat
NewestArchive
Login
 
Admin
a spark of hope..
  Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
auggie55 ®

11/25/2016, 22:13:41
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
Today when I went to visit my best friends, a PWK couple that recently retired from running a small vegetarian, organic cafe that I worked at a lot off and on for 20 years, I felt a glimmer of hope. My best friend had just returned from a board meeting with Meals on wheels, a delivery service for the elderly. I overheard tell someone, after being asked,"what will you do upon retirement" She answered "probably volunteer work" I rolled my eyes at the time, thinking I knew what that meant. The same trap she's been doing her whole life. She Did the Astrodome thingy. I was pleasantly surprised to find she went to the meeting to simply put in a word in about maybe evolving to a healthier menu for the recipients. I know her well enough that I truly believe there is no ulterior motive(I.E> Malibu) to her involvement. This makes me happy. I also am smart enough to not say anything. I think it's a gesture to do good for the community, and quietly help, w/o exposure.  Just be a secular, normal human which she truly is. She got in early. She described her first contact, a park in London, where she heard about a kid who came to"save the world"  When I pressed him more, recently, she said she was suicidal at the time.  Perhaps she said that to shut me up, with so much time invested it would be tough to exit. this new thing feels good.
 A way to crawl out. Thoughts?






Previous View All Current page Next
Re: a spark of hope..
Re: a spark of hope.. -- auggie55 Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
cq ®

11/26/2016, 10:13:28
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
I have to admit, it's not quite clear who the 'him' in your post refers to (as regards the one you 'pressed').

But if you're on the path of trying to enable premies to re-examine their faith in their former guru, (which is a cause that can be pursued with both noble and ignoble motives), then it'd be interesting to see how premies would respond to the fact that Rawat attracted the majority of his followers with the likes of this:

"Leave no room for doubt in your mind"

Can you imagine anyone other than a (would-be) dictator asking such a thing?

Especially when given as one of only five "commandments" for one's entire lifetime?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=%22leave+no+room+for+doubt+in+your+mind%22&oq=%22leave+no+room+for+doubt+in+your+mind%22&gs_l=serp.3...11015.33899.0.34825.2.2.0.0.0.0.89.155.2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.serp..0.0.0.Nf-IECpE7k0





Related link: http://maharajigospel.com/initiation.html
Modified by cq at Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 10:27:23

Previous Current page Next
Re: a spark of hope..
Re: Re: a spark of hope.. -- cq Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
auggie55 ®

11/26/2016, 10:28:01
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
Thanks for pointing that out, the him should be her. I have a bad habit of not proofreading before sending. I've really eased up on them since the cafe that we worked at closed. They are simply too nice of people to point out the madness of it all anymore. I think my motives have been noble, I certainly don't offer any replacement dogmas. I would never rub their face in it(I told you so) if they exed.






Previous Current page Next
Re: a spark of hope.. thanks for clarifying, Auggie
Re: Re: a spark of hope.. -- auggie55 Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
cq ®

11/26/2016, 10:40:08
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
As regards the "Leave no room for doubt in your mind" ethos (if that's the right word), I found this - albeit somewhat dated - comment on the influence of Islam while searching for other examples of the use of that phrase.

It makes for interesting reading.





Related link: http://www.anythinganywhere.com/prose/fundamental.htm

Previous Current page Next
I don't know who the author of that piece is, but could be ex-premie
Re: Re: a spark of hope.. thanks for clarifying, Auggie -- cq Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
cq ®

11/26/2016, 11:09:27
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
QUOTE (about 14 paragraphs from the end of above link)


1/31/02
ISOLATION, or WHO YA GONNA BELIEVE - ME OR YOUR LYING EYES?

I was at one time briefly involved with a sect that had a fairly well-run internal propaganda operation, though there was a weakness in the charismatic and supposedly divine puppet that caused him to give up after a few years, his abdication wrecking the organization built around him, which functioned mainly as a modest cash cow for his handlers. The organization issued a sheet of simple rules to follow: get up early, wash thoroughly, no sex, no drugs, avoid certain situations, perform certain rituals... - difficult but not impossible. One of the rules was "Leave no room for doubt in your mind."

I believe that exhortation sums up the essence of fundamentalism in all its forms. Belief trumps logic, inquiry, finally all other considerations. If the process proceeds to an end point belief is advertised to trump normal reality and one can wind up in truly wierd situations such as Jonestown or that of the people who committed suicide so their "souls" could join the alien space ship that was supposed to be hiding behind the Hale-Bopp comet. Or, for that matter, one could allow onself to be convinced that deliberately killing oneself in order to kill "enemy" non-combatants, two actions explicitly forbidden by one's religion, are actually praiseworthy and will get one into "heaven."

When one succeeds in leaving no room for doubt in one's mind it doesn't matter what is being said or done. One has already made up one's mind and there's nothing left to discuss. "Not my will, but thine."

One usually comes to that state of mind not by intellectual inquiry but rather by the application of Goebbels' "big lie." The big lie is essentially a total immersion propaganda technique. The propagandizee is bombarded by the "correct" point of view at all times and in every way, leaving no time for rest and reflection. We see attempts at the employment of this method everywhere and all the time. Usually they are inept enough to be ineffective in swaying most of the intended targets, but somebody will fall for the message, whatever it is, and many propaganda campaigns are effective enough with a mass audience to get the job done at least once or twice: sell the tickets, sell the war, sell the corporate image, find a volunteer for the mission, etc.

As mentioned previously, there are people who are more than usually susceptible to being propagandized. Some of these people have a high degree of cognitive ability and great skill in various things, yet they have a soft spot that allows also them to absorb the propaganda with their typical efficiency.

The administrators of fundamentalist organizations look for these people. They draw up profiles of the people they want to recruit, having centuries of prior experience to go on. When they find these people they will give them training as special tools. Typically a portion of the training will be conducted in isolation from the outside world. Lack of sleep for prolonged periods is a common component of this training, accompanied by many hours of repetitive propagandizing. The idea of the repetition is to get the appropriate phrases deep in the mind. Such a placement is considered preferable to intellectual certitude. The goal is to have the formula pop out in appropriate situations without conscious thought, literally "leaving no room for doubt in the mind."

This kind of repetitive training is the normal way of acquiring skill in most endeavors, especially in athletics. At a certain point in training the response becomes "automatic" and one is considered "ready to roll." What happens to the swimmers on the block waiting for the starting bell is the same thing that happened to the hijackers before they started their dance of death. A normal human process turned to a specific end.

When looked at solely in terms of organization "fundamentalist" organizations are not different from "mainstream" organizations. In what way is the CIA, or the Boy Scouts, or any business, Enron, for instance, different, other than in the complexity of their organization? All have a doctrine, a mission, a nested hierarchy. The organizational structure is the constant. Tweak the doctrine and the mission changes. Put someone with charisma in a key position and the organization is ready to roll.

Skepticism is the primary tool used to demolish the culture of organizations, therefore skeptics are enemies who need to be expelled or eliminated. People who like to think for themselves and ask questions are not welcome.

ENDQUOTE





Related link: about 14 paras from end of article ...
Modified by cq at Sat, Nov 26, 2016, 11:11:21

Previous Current page Next
Re: I don't know who the author of that piece is, but could be ex-premie
Re: I don't know who the author of that piece is, but could be ex-premie -- cq Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
auggie55 ®

11/26/2016, 11:18:04
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
Good piece. For a long time I have thought that "the billionaires laugh all the way to the bank", when they see the way we divide ourselves. It saddens me that our species seems to have to go to the brink before we find common ground.






Previous Current page Next
Re: a spark of hope.. thanks for clarifying, Auggie
Re: Re: a spark of hope.. thanks for clarifying, Auggie -- cq Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
auggie55 ®

11/26/2016, 11:09:58
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
thanks for the links,there sure is a lot of flavors of zombie ice cream out there. We get quite a dose of Islam on the other page.






Previous Current page Next
Re: a spark of hope..
Re: a spark of hope.. -- auggie55 Top of thread Post Reply Forum
Posted by:
DCcultmember ®

11/26/2016, 17:27:37
Author Profile

Edit
Alert Forum Admin




Post Reply
From what I see from my friends still in (40 year lifers) the cult,  many seem to have backed off a bit but still can't say they were scammed. For instance, they no longer go to the cult compound in Australia citing $$$ as the reason.  In the old days, $$$ was never a reason for the true devotee who still had an active credit card.

I'm curious to know if they still meditate, practice K or whatever they call it now.  We really need a recent escapee here to debrief.






Previous Current page Next


Forum     Back