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Prem Rawat/Guru Maharaj Ji's satsang at the DUO Directors' Conference during the Guru Puja Festival in Essen, Germany, August 30, 1975.As printed in the Divine Times November 1975 Volume 4, Issue 9, Page 2. (Part one)
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Prem Rawat/Guru Maharaj Ji's satsang at the DUO Director' Conference during the Guru Puja Festival in Essen, Germany, August 30, 1975.As printed in the Divine Times November 1975 Volume 4, Issue 9, Page 2. (Part two) Prem Rawat... "Then you will make a good servant" and "You are doing this for me" (whoops I think he told the truth for once)
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Thanks Hilltop. In this DUO honchos' meeting in Essen, Rawat makes it crystal clear that it is he who makes all the decisions regarding any initiative related to disseminating knowledge. Not the mahatmas/initiators, not the honchos. So much for all the revisionist crap trying to suggest the contrary. 
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The fact that Maharaji (Prem Rawat) openly acknowledges that all decisions are actually made by him explicitly and conclusively is astounding. This admission by Maharaji, made way back in 1975, contradicts all that Elan Vital has said in the past and particularly in recent times when they have stated that Maharaji (Prem Rawat) is an independent person who does not control Elan Vital (previoualy known as as Divine Light Mission) etc. Given that this admission was made in 1975, that is very soon after 1974, I have to assume, quite reasonably that the Fakiranand hammer attack in 1974 on Pat Halley was instigated, authorised and blessed by Prem Rawat (then known as Guru Maharaj Ji). Also, one has to assume, given Prem Rawat's very explicit statements that Hilltop has scanned and posted, that Maharaji will have instigated or certaintly gave his blessing to all the fighting for possession of Indian ashrams that took place in 1974. I understand that there were a considerable amount of deaths that resulted from such fighting in India. On both sides of the camp, Satpal as well as Prem Rawat. Below I have pasted the text of the scans that Hilltop posted earlier today. T __________ How About Doing Some Service?
Guru Maharaj Ji's satsang at the DUO Directors' Conference during the Guru Puja Festival in Essen. Germany. August 30, 1975 That all of the International Directors, all the responsible people of this organization, have gotten together is a really beautiful opportunity.
You see, we have a problem. We have to organize so many different people into one format, into one way. My example for our situation, what Divine Light Mission has to do for people, is that we are a clothing store. This clothing store manufactures ready-made suits, but it has to manufacture its suits in such a way that as soon as the buyer goes into the shop and picks one up, it fits him perfectly. You can imagine the problem involved in making a suit that will fit him perfectly the moment he puts it on. But this is what we have to do. All the programs that we have, the way we have developed, it’s a very, very complicated situation. So one thing I want all the premies who are here, who are working, and who are the responsible people for their countries to understand is that this is no joke. This is an extremely, extremely responsible job. If you cannot do it, split the scene. As I said one time in Denver, if you are not responsible enough and try to take too much responsibility on yourself if you really cannot do that service and try to do it just for the name, fame, or anything, you are not only stepping on a thorn, you are spreading more thorns. Then when other people come, it becomes very, very difficult for them even to try to walk on the same path. . You see, we have to bring so many people together. First it was India, there was no organization problem In India, because the word 'organization' doesn't have any meaning there. Some of the mahatmas who came here previously to try to organize things never could understand organization. But now people have started to come together We have so many premies, so many people, in such an organization, and we have really started understanding. It's a different story altogether. At least for me it has been a different experience. Everything has to happen in synch. You see, right now everybody is looking at America, Well, what’s America? America is a country just like you. There are a few more premies there, and because I stay most of the time in America, I decided to make the international Headquarters there. That's just about the only difference. But the amount of responsibility that is handled over in America is the same amount that you have to handle. You are responsible for organizing prachar in your countries. I hope you understand that. And what a great amount of effort that involves. It's beautiful. it's extremely - you can't really say 'hard', because when it is service to Guru Maharaj Ji it's never hard - but, it's an extremely, extremely beautiful service. I think that you premies are all really lucky to have this opportunity to be able to do this service. You have seen yourself how we have grown since the festival. We talk about the organization and to some people it sounds absolutely crazy. To some people, it's very, very funny. They sit down and they pinpoint things. They say, "This is wrong, and this is wrong, and this is wrong, and this is wrong," They think that it's all the American Mission's, the American officials' fault, and they start blaming. This is one of the most common problems faced. But that decision has been made by me, It Is only circulated by them, You see? It just so happens that on that piece of paper that comes to you, it does not have my signature on it, it has Bob's [Mishler] signature on it. But before that letter goes out, before such an agya is sent out, Bob informs me first. We talk. and we say. “Okay” or “We can't do it this way. No. this is the way I want it done.” People are in their heads, people are in their minds. and they don't realize that. They go on blaming, saying, "This is wrong," and, "How can this happen?" and, "This is freaky:' Well, those decisions are made by me. and you have to understand that. We have to be very, very cooperative. We cannot expect that this organization will just flop together. It will not flop together. This takes an extreme amount of effort, understanding, patience and intelligence. When all of these things are combined, then we makes good servant to Guru Maharaj Ji. Don't look at yourselves as president, or secretary, or general secretary, or treasurer, or whoever you are. Look at yourself as a servant doing service to Guru Maharaj Ji. And it is a service, so it should be done in the maximum best way you can do it. Because it is to Guru Maharaj Ji. You are doing this for me. Whatever effort you put into organizing and bringing people to this Knowledge, this is for me.
Modified by T at Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 16:37:14
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>People are in their heads, people are in their minds. and they don't realize that. They go on blaming, saying, "This is wrong," and, "How can this happen?" and, "This is freaky:' Well, those decisions are made by me. and you have to understand that. We have to be very, very cooperative. What's with the 'we' here? Do as I tell you or I will scare and damn the hell out of you until the third generation.... How the present ev site can pretend this stuff never happened, or imagine it will stay suppressed... They don't have a hope in hell now Hilltop has the negatives..
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Well, it certainly puts a lie to the EV revisionist spin that a lot of the mistakes in organization and direction was due to left field honchos. Here we have Rawat making clear early on that all policy and procedure is approved by him personally: We talk about the organization and to some people it sounds absolutely crazy. To some people, it's very, very funny. They sit down and they pinpoint things. They say, "This is wrong, and this is wrong, and this is wrong, and this is wrong," They think that it's all the American Mission's, the American officials' fault, and they start blaming. This is one of the most common problems faced. But that decision has been made by me, it is only circulated by them, you see? That Rawat is the source of all the objectionable concepts and heavy trips that have been promulgated by this cult is not an actual revelation for anyone here. But it is not often that we see it spelled out in black and white by Rawat himself. Not some wing-ding honcho or mahatma/initiator as Rawat and EV would like people to believe. So let's summarize: Rawat comes to the West as a thirteen year-old "perfect master". Brings with him all the Eastern concepts of bhakti yoga/guru devotion that he learned at his father's knee. Demands devotion. Makes it clear that one does not "realize knowledge" without that devotion and surrender to him personally. People are encouraged to dedicate their lives physically to him and work primarily to be able to see him and support him. Rawat embarks on three decades worth of failed initiatives to bring his knowledge to the masses by which thousands of people give him a ton of money and a significant chunk of their lives. Rawat becomes enormously rich and claims that he got that way as a private investor. Rawat and his organizations attempt to blame past mistakes and concepts on his followers. EV and TPRF develop into slick operational and public relations vehicles that deny their own history. Weird.
Modified by Dr.wow at Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 15:46:16
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Those techniques are what really threw me. To the average white man conditioned like me, they came across as revelation-real "Hallelujah!"spiritual revelation! Revelation is classically contextualised by authority,(I have since learned) but at the time I mechanically embrace the Master and all the incidents and accidents hints and allegations(P.Simon)that inevitably follow. Hmmm. Love Bryn
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Well, here's the rub for me: I continue to meditate on occasion using these techniques and I wouldn't be doing so unless I gained a sense of well-being doing so. Naturally, I have nothing against humanity doing whatever if it feels good and doesn't harm anyone. The harm is when a deluded and/or possibly megalomaniacal leader abuses his/her position by demanding absolute fealty in return. In my mind Rawat has abused whatever goodwill was extended by me to him in return for the techniques. He ascribed a metaphysical significance to "knowledge" that was/is simply not warranted. Feeling at peace does not equate to spiritual liberation or guru subservience and all of the Hindu concepts he has been complicit in exporting around the world. He demanded a surrender and devotion to him personally which was a deeply troubling chapter in my life. Hilltop's posting of the published speeches of Maharaji/Rawat make it abundantly clear (again and again) that Rawat alone is responsible for all the wack concepts surrounding the simple techniques. Any mental and emotional abuse arising from these concepts can therefore be placed quite rightly at Rawat's feet. Moreover, Rawat alluding to being Krishna, Lord, Perfect Master, God, greater that God, all that crazy stuff was not a cultural misunderstanding but a severely deluded attempt to solicit our devotion and perpetuate a mythical belief system. Rawat, in the Essen Coordinators meeting, also makes clear that all decisions are made by him not by his officials. Therefore it is Rawat alone who can be blamed for all of the misguided propogation campaigns, fund-raising campaigns, no chit-chat directives and the like. While Rawat and his organizations have belatedly learned a thing or two in terms of public relations and presentation over the years (as have many other cults) the fact remains that he has refused to be accountable for his direction and decisions or otherwise accept responsibility for any harm arising as a consequence. Just the opposite - he and his organizations have embarked on a long-standing campaign to destroy, spin and revise his history. Therefore, one can only conclude that Rawat is responsible for this deception as well.
Modified by Dr.wow at Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 13:21:13
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I know we are not in disagreement Dr Wow, but there's an angle here that we differ slightly on. As you say: "He ascribed a metaphysical significance to "knowledge" that was/is simply not warranted." True,he did, But I add: The techniques in themselves to many minds (mine) do have a genuine metaphysical significance and not because Rawat ascribes to them this significance. Its their intrinsic mind altering capacity that dazzled and unbalanced me. Those pseudo-revelatory techniques came as an active component of Guru Maharaj ji's campaign westwards, as well as all the other stuff you summarized so beautifully. Of course people are different. If a person meditates for the "good feeling"-fine its there, respect, but if as well, one is oriented toward evaluating, consciously or unconsciously, your own cognitional processes, ie if you're a bit "thoughtful" when these techs hit you, well your whole assumption about your position in the world of sense relationships is rocked by them. And if like me and millions of other educated liberals your understandings about human cognition were educated into you unconsciously and assumed to be normal and watertight, the meditation begins a process of inner erosion and displacement on a level you don't realise is happening. Sure the bliss is there no doubt,but a big question remains un- addressed: what specifically does prolonged staring/listening to objects that arrive in your consciousness without any connection to the objects of the sense world(light music etc), or your senses themselves, what does all that do to your grasp of your place in the physical world? (answer: it fucks it up) You get no sensible guidance on that one from the master at all. Its not a question he can even frame, because if he did he would have to resign on the spot as a guru. Its a research question in cognitional psychology, philosophy and goodness knows what else. Gurus not required. Conveniently he ignores it and stays in business be doing so.If the question ever does occur to him,he chooses to exploit the complexity of the issue for his own advantage. Anyway thanks for the chance to air the point. Those techniques and their power to disoreientate were decisive for the length of my stay in Rawatland. But i'm not bitter! Bryn
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Hi Bryn: It seems that whenever discussion about meditation techniques arises on these fora a veritable can of words is opened. For the record and as you are no doubt aware, the techniques that we were shown by Rawat have been circulating in one configuration or another for god knows how long by the so-called Radsoami and Advait Mat groups in Northern India and Pakistan. It is from this tradition that Rawat's father copped the tech's and passed them on. A cursory reading of Hans Yog Prakash certainly gives a sense of where the younger Rawat gained a love for overblown bhakti oratory. It is clear that for many former followers the idea that the techniques might be useful is anathema, especially considering Rawat's reported alcohol abuse and all the other unpleasantness that we are all sadly well acquainted with. For others the very idea of some kind of inward focused peaceful experience is fanciful thinking promoted by a long line of snake oil charlatans and would-be avatars. No doubt this realm certainly encompasses a lot of myth, superstition and claptrap. I've certainly examined my own experiences with meditation and wondered if some of it is helped along by the power of suggestion or belief. I guess I've come to the conclusion that if that is the case, bring it on, because I really enjoy it. However, like I said in the my previous post, it is completely removed from Rawatian mythology. To be honest Bryn when you say "but if as well, one is oriented toward evaluating, consciously or unconsciously, your own cognitional processes, ie if you're a bit "thoughtful" when these techs hit you, well your whole assumption about your position in the world of sense relationships is rocked by them" doesn't resonate with me personally. But then again my background is such that I had already had many experiences that fully rocked any and all assumptions I had about myself. However, I fully agree that during my association with Rawat he spent zero amount of time talking about any challeges to one's sensibilities or indeed any serious talk about integrating any meditational experience with the work-a-day world. But then he was much too interested in getting us to surrender the reins of our lives to him not to mention our wallets and teaching us all about the wonders of devotion. And Rawat is guilty as hell in creating very harmful false belief systems in tens of thousands of people. Such as the belief that the mind was an enemy that could only be slain by his grace and by our ever vigilant efforts to be in the "holy name" or in service, satsang and meditation. I'm sure that more people felt fucked up by that impossibility than anything else. I can remember Rawat calling us two-faced monsters for failing to live it up to his ridiculous edicts. How people would beat themselves up over this kind of nonsense. To me that whole era was a very primitive attempt to create a (false) dichotomy within ourselves that only Rawat could save us from and what an ugly deception it was. Rawat no longer harps on about this kind of crap but neither has he taken any kind of responsibility for it. Instead he attacks his critics, most of whom have invested significant chunks of their lives supporting his mission, not as people who might have something valid to say, but as being part of a hate group. Anyways, best to you Bryn.
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...I'm lurking but just wanted to say Great Post and thread.
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I do think there's a difference between buying into a load of old guff for whatever reason, & reluctantly going along with it because one has been conned by a physical trick. There were many, many, premies who felt distinctly uncomfortable about it all, but who took the 'proof' of the meditation as validation.
I must say that the longer I haven't meditated, the more connected to other people I feel. I don't deny that some regard them as benign, but I don't. I threw them out together with all the rest of the insidious rubbish when I finally realised what a low rent piece of shit this Rawat really is.
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very surprizing, very revealing, I have to admit. I have seen so many denials of Prem Rawat's leadership in Wikipedia. Many thanks Hilltop. I do not understand how anyone can deny what is so clearly stated in black in white. Fortunately the history of the Wikipedia article can always be seen so there will always be proof of this untrue denial of leadership by current students of Prem Rawat. By the way, I am still hoping by the way for the forum8 data. Andries
Modified by Andries at Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 16:22:53
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Andries, I rarely look at Wikipedia these days but if you edit this in, please let us know. It'll be fun watching. (Laurie's watching Ocean's Twelve in the other room. She's all excited because of the Amsterdam shots. "Hey that's Andries' neigbourhood!"
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