To Nigel Down below
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Posted by:
zonk 2 ®

01/03/2006, 04:04:15
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Hi Nigel would you like to talk or someone

else







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I'm not Nigel, but...
Re: To Nigel Down below -- zonk 2 Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Cynthia ®

01/03/2006, 13:20:40
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Hi Zonk2

You said:

It is with great sadness that i must report that M is a madman. As I sit here in my darkest hour I cry to the lord as one from the wilderness. Who will guide me who will be my champion.

I don't know if Rawat if a madman or a garden variety snake-oil salesman with a bad case of narcissism.  God knows the world has plenty both.  You're in a particularly vulnerable spot right now because it appears you've just realized Maharaji is a fraud.  It's a delicate time and you deserve to treat youself kindly.  It hurts badly, especially if you've given him the largest and best portion of your life.

There is grieving to be done, but I don't agree that one should flow along with grief.   I'm kind of an expert on darkest hours, so imho, had I flowed along with it I would have drowned in it long ago. 

There is also some celebrating to be done because you've got a whole new life ahead of you to invent for yourself.  I encourage you to continue posting here because sometimes the deep sadness and the actual loss can be overwhelming and one needs support throught those hard times.  There are plenty of folks here who care enough to pay attention and give you support.  They won't be making any false promises to you, either.

I also wanted to tell you that you don't have to feel as if your spirituality is gone forever.  You don't have to give up on God at all.  There are many ex-premies who rediscovered their spirituality.  Some decide there's nothing in which to believe and that's okay, too.  It's entirely your choice.  And what a lovely thing that word is post-Maharaji:  Choice.

I'm reading John Steinbeck's East of Eden:

From Chapter 3 [2]
 
When a child first catches adults out -- when it first walks into his grave little head that adults do not have divine intelligence, that their judgments are not always wise, their thinking true, their sentences just -- his world falls into panic desolation.  The gods are fallen and all safety gone.  And there is one sure thing about the fall of gods:  they do not fall a little; they crash and shatter or sink deeply into green muck.  It is a tedious job to build them up again; they never quite shine.  And the child's world is never quite whole again.  It is an aching kind of growing.
This one small passage in the book tells it all for me in many ways.  I wanted to share it with you.  I think it kind of applies to former cult members who realize finally, that the person in whom they held all their love and trust wasn't so shiny after all.
Be well,
Cynthia





Modified by Cynthia at Tue, Jan 03, 2006, 13:26:10

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As Steinbeck pointed out - adults do not have divine intelligence
Re: I'm not Nigel, but... -- Cynthia Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
cq ®

01/03/2006, 14:41:23
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Poignant quote there, Cynthia. Steinbeck's "Of Mice and Men" is the only work of his I've read yet. Must try East of Eden sometime - or is the film one of those rare instances of the movie being better than the book?

By the way, here's an interesting and topical link you might enjoy reading:

QUOTE


The Times
January 03, 2006

Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest

From Richard Owen in Rome


AN ITALIAN judge has ordered a priest to appear in court this month to prove that Jesus Christ existed.

The case against Father Enrico Righi has been brought in the town of Viterbo, north of Rome, by Luigi Cascioli, a retired agronomist who once studied for the priesthood but later became a militant atheist.

Signor Cascioli, author of a book called The Fable of Christ, began legal proceedings against Father Righi three years ago after the priest denounced Signor Cascioli in the parish newsletter for questioning Christ’s historical existence.

Yesterday Gaetano Mautone, a judge in Viterbo, set a preliminary hearing for the end of this month and ordered Father Righi to appear. The judge had earlier refused to take up the case, but was overruled last month by the Court of Appeal, which agreed that Signor Cascioli had a reasonable case for his accusation that Father Righi was “abusing popular credulity”.

Signor Cascioli’s contention — echoed in numerous atheist books and internet sites — is that there was no reliable evidence that Jesus lived and died in 1st-century Palestine apart from the Gospel accounts, which Christians took on faith. There is therefore no basis for Christianity, he claims.

Signor Cascioli’s one-man campaign came to a head at a court hearing last April when he lodged his accusations of “abuse of popular credulity” and “impersonation”, both offences under the Italian penal code. He argued that all claims for the existence of Jesus from sources other than the Bible stem from authors who lived “after the time of the hypothetical Jesus” and were therefore not reliable witnesses.

Signor Cascioli maintains that early Christian writers confused Jesus with John of Gamala, an anti-Roman Jewish insurgent in 1st-century Palestine. Church authorities were therefore guilty of “substitution of persons”.

The Roman historians Tacitus and Suetonius mention a “Christus” or “Chrestus”, but were writing “well after the life of the purported Jesus” and were relying on hearsay.

Father Righi said there was overwhelming testimony to Christ’s existence in religious and secular texts. Millions had in any case believed in Christ as both man and Son of God for 2,000 years.

“If Cascioli does not see the sun in the sky at midday, he cannot sue me because I see it and he does not,” Father Righi said.

Signor Cascioli said that the Gospels themselves were full of inconsistencies and did not agree on the names of the 12 apostles. He said that he would withdraw his legal action if Father Righi came up with irrefutable proof of Christ’s existence by the end of the month.

The Vatican has so far declined to comment.


THE EVIDENCE

The Gospels say that Jesus was born to the Virgin Mary in Bethlehem, grew up in Nazareth, preached and performed miracles in Galilee and died on the Cross in Jerusalem

In his Antiquities of the Jews at the end of the 1st century, Josephus, the Jewish historian, refers to Jesus as “a wise man, a doer of wonderful works” who “drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles”

Muslims believe Jesus was a great prophet. Many Jewish theologians regard Jesus as an itinerant rabbi who popularised many of the beliefs of liberal Jews. Neither Muslims nor Jews believe he was the Messiah and Son of God

Tacitus, the Roman historian who lived from 55 to 120, mentions “Christus” in his Annals. In about 120 Suetonius, author of The Lives of the Caesars, says: “Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, Emperor Claudius expelled them from Rome.”

ENDQUOTE





Related link: Prove Christ exists, judge orders priest
Modified by cq at Tue, Jan 03, 2006, 14:42:49

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Re: As Steinbeck pointed out - adults do not have divine intelligence
Re: As Steinbeck pointed out - adults do not have divine intelligence -- cq Top of thread Archive
Posted by:
Cynthia ®

01/04/2006, 16:30:41
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Must try East of Eden sometime - or is the film one of those rare instances of the movie being better than the book?

The movie's great.  It's one of the three that James Dean made.  But, imho, the book is a masterpiece.  It's one of those books that I'm taking my time with savoring.  It's quite long, too.  Even better.

Thanks for the article, cq.  I've been very busy, but will read that later, too.







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