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I suspect all three. No wonder propagation is a tricky business. In so many ways, I don’t envy him, for all his wealth and surrounding licksplittles singing his morning glory at the breakfast table, fetching his slippers at night. They praise him because he has demanded their praise. When he’s dead, he must know in his secretmost places that he has failed on his promises, hurt so many, and his works will not live on for even 40, let alone 300 years. Sad fucker. He must know what he really knows. What we all know. ....some Dead Heads I knew way back when. They talked and talked about how the Dead were going to outlast Mozart! Ha ha ha ha. They were going to be bigger and more important than Bach. Sorry guys, (if any of you here worship at Jerry Garcia's golden finger) but like the Dead, rawat will yes - fade away. Karen
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Their musical legacy still lives on in a new younger generation, and more importantly their attitude has definitely been passed down.
Though some dead heads were also always prone to exaggeration in my experience. I once had one tell me that the Dead were the roots of house music, I had to laugh as in bigtime, what can you say to something like that but, "whatever".
And I say that as a serious dead head til the mid eighties 
Modified by hamzen at Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 07:34:34
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Excuse me please, but the Grateful Dead will NOT FADE AWAY!
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Hi Ham and OTS, I knew I'd hear back from someone. I really really tried to like the Dead, I just couldn't get into them. I went to a concert in 1967 with the Fugs ( "Up Against The Wall M-F" and "Have A Marijuana" , the Velvet Underground with Nico, and the Dead. I loved the first two groups, but got a headache when the Dead turned their back on the audience and did 45 minutes of feedback. Then in college in 1971 I was dating a Deadhead, and it was just take some more acid and you'll understand. Well I just didn't. I guess I wasn't cool enough. My tastes ran more to Frank Zappa. My first psychedelic trip was to Uncle Meat - NOW THAT'S the NEW CLASSICAL MUSIC! Karen
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Whether an individual's work be it artistic, philosophical or political, has influence on others over time, has very little to do with the 'inherent' quality of that work. Legacies can result from good and/or bad and/or indifferent work. The fact that a particular body of work is applauded, derided or forgotten by succeeding generations has as much more to do with the approval of the work (most frequently an approval of what the work was perceived to be) by those who contemporaneously influence the tastes of those succeeding generations. Personally I hope that Rawat is remembered for centuries to come. His contribution, along with Hubbard, Sun Yung Moon, Rajneesh and other cultists, to the perversion and misdirection of human endeavour has been profound. The full horror of charismatic dictatorship and the promotion of moral subservience were fully realised in the first half of the 20th Century - Rawat, Hubbard and their kind may not have equalled the murderousness and inhumanity of Hitlerism and Stalinism - but Guruism follows exactly the same path, it's the same poison just dressed up in white robes. Let Rawat's legacy be an enduring contempt for everything he represented. Nik
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The full horror of charismatic dictatorship and the promotion of moral subservience were fully realised in the first half of the 20th Century - Rawat, Hubbard and their kind may not have equalled the murderousness and inhumanity of Hitlerism and Stalinism - but Guruism follows exactly the same path, it's the same poison just dressed up in white robes. Let Rawat's legacy be an enduring contempt for everything he represented. If I'd gone ahead and posted what I started to write last night, I'd have mentioned how strikingly similar Rawat is in someways to Hitler as portrayed in the excellent 2004 German film "Downfall" we watched the other night. Have you seen it? The acting's incredible and it's so deeply dramatic seeing Hitler's cult disinegrate in a matter of days, leaving its members confused, angry, shameful and afraid. And there, at the centre of it all, the crazy little tyrant, the guy who all along really cared for no one but himself and his dumb ass murderous vision. The differences between Rawat and Hitler are obvious. Rawat was only responsible for a few needless deaths whereas Hitler's count is about 50 million. But no one can deny there are some disturbing parallels between the two.
Related link: Downfall
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True, he is in the same category as those other guys, but Moon, Hubbard and Rajneesh had a much greater impact, and Moon even owns media and tries to have political influence, something Rawat has never been able to do. Most people have never heard of Rawat and never will. Moon and Hubbard on the other hand, are quite well known. So, I predict Rawat will go down in history as a footnote from the 70s, the child Guru who conned a bunch of hippies, Rennie Davis, and some others for a few years, while he drove Rolls Royce's and married an airline stewardess, and then got rejected by his Mother. That's the story that will be his legacy, and precious little else, and it will all be portrayed as a joke, rather than something that was very damanging to thousands of people.
Modified by Joe at Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 12:01:32
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In a way that's a pity. Exes have something of value to pass on--the wisdom we've learned from our error and thrashed out in debate on these forums, plus a solid background of documentation. (My impression is that ex-premies are far better organized, with far better documentation, than the exes of other movements.) There will always be Rawats, but what we know could save a few young people from being fooled again--if anyone will listen. Maybe it needs someone to write one really good, accessible, controversial book on the subject. Neville B
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I think Rawat is seen as such a has-been, that nobody would be interested in a book about him. I suppose exes can create some controversey, but really, all exes are doing is telling the other side of Mr. Rawat's story. Even that latest website is so whitewashed. They avoid everything that is an issue with his former followers, refuse to address any of it, and instead link to Elan Vital Australia, which has the most vicious, and most false, attack on ex-premies of all the cult websites. You know, that it's just a hate group and we just hate for no reason, just because we are hateful or maybe because of some crackpot theory that the internet makes you hateful. You know, it's kind of Bush's comment that "evildoers" do evil because they are evil. Like Bush, the cult talks in circles, obvious to anyone, apparently but cult members themselves. So, as long as they do that, it just mutes any of the good stuff they think they might accomplish through PR campaigns and testimonials.
Interesting that on that new website, they so far haven't been able to get anybody to comment on any year after about 1985. It's the typical Rawat cult spin. They talk about 1971-1972, briefly mention the marriage in 1974, then fast forward to the 90s, when Rawat is a humanitarian leader, so they say.
Until the cult can address the legitimate criticisms that ex-followers have of Mr. Rawat, and until he honestly accepts responsibility for playing God for so many years and taking advantage of people in the process, that cult is going nowhere because denying all that is contradicted by all kinds of written, visual and oral testimony to the contrary. There is just way too much contrary information available, which the cult refuses to address. I mean, just look at what Hilltop just put up from the Divine Times and "the Living Master" a book Elan Vital put out and claims copyright to, according to Elan Vital's lawyers. It's just AMAZING how blatant it is. Rawat think's he God, says people should devote to him and surrender their lives to him, and that "knowledge" is nothing without Maharaji, and the whole goal is to devote your life to him. l mean, it's AMAAAAAZING. There is just no way to explain that away. Plus, I remember him saying it, so do the other exes, and so do most of the premies, who kind of get an ulcer trying to explain it away, so they just repress it. Real healthy. Real attractive. Riiiiight.
Modified by Joe at Thu, Dec 29, 2005, 17:35:52
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There are ways of making it interesting. Corruption, abuse of power and self-delusion are interesting, and some of the stories are jaw-dropping. If I had nothing to lose, or was so rich I was invulnerable, I might give it a go... Neville B
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