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Hi John! Yikes! I was called "crazy" by some people at one time, for being a premie! Now I'm being labelled "crazy" for being an ex! You can't win with this stuff! But why bother about labels anyway? Labels "thingify" people, (as one very beautiful, dignified and intelligent pastor friend of mine once said) and I'm still a people--alive and kicking and feeling and thinking and being and actually quite happy with where I'm at in my life now. Able to acknowledge my mistakes, able to laugh, able to love. And I have a real name! Because there's nothing to hide. Cheers everyone, Shelagh
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Of course the whole post is stupid but the part that really gets me, simply because it reminds me how I used to get so confused and fret over these things was this: There's a great story where Maharaji was driving down the road in Colorado and saw this premie walking down the street. Maharaji pulled over and said "Hey, J--, how's it going? Come on in the car, let's take a ride!" The premie said "No, Maharaji, I have service to do, I can't come with you." Can you imagine???
As we all know, Rawat could have just as easily turned that story around and ridiculed the premie for taking him up on his offer of a ride and abandoning his service. There was never any way of knowing what was right or wrong. And yes, that was abusive. I don't use the word that much but it sure fits here. More than being yelled at -- that's bad too -- being ridiculed capriciously like that, for no rhyme or reason, just because you're a cult leader and you can say whatever .... that's bad.
Modified by Jim at Fri, Dec 23, 2005, 15:20:10
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Hi John,I didn't fit any of those categories, and it's missing my description which is: Premies who read EPO and find out about all the lies and cover-ups, and how M behaves in his private life. They discover a huge amount of information on the website which has deliberately been kept secret from premies, by M&EV. It's a shock at first, but over time they come to terms with things, and sometimes reading the expremie forum can be very helpful to the exing process. Wonder why that category was omitted?!! Cholly Knickerbocker needs to do more research! The anger and criticism that comes through his/her post, suggest that he is in some kind of denial. His post is a good example of how cult-indoctrinated premies are not able to empathise, but have to criticise instead. I've experienced this first hand. It can be scary for premies to seriously question Maharaji's behaviour, (and I used to avoid doing that when I was a premie.) Gotta go, have to cut this short. Never mind!
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If Maharaji wore white robes and encouraged people to shave their heads, be vegetarian and live in an ashram they'd be back in a second. Yeah, a f*****g dream come true.
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The opposite of Love is Indifference. Hate (and they DO quite proudly hate premies and Maharaji) is too strong to be anything but a flip side of Love. Can someone explain this sentence to me? There are so many holes in this guy's logic. Also, who hates premies? If Maharaji wore white robes and encouraged people to shave their heads, be vegetarian and live in an ashram they'd be back in a second. I don't think so. More than a few Ex'es are now Ex-exes, and have started watching videos and practicing again, this time without the "church" crap and ideas. Just a simple, quiet feeling of peace within. And that's the only thing Maharaji ever promised anyone in the first place! Who do you think this is? It won't ever be me. I don't need rawat to feel the "peace within." That is mine. I not only never want to see rawat again, I can't even bear to read his bull crap that is posted here on the forums. I can hardly look at the pictures of him. He is disgustapating. He is revolting. He is vile. He isn't worthy to lick my heels. I am here with my real name. Karen
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I can't stand to read Maharaji's discourses, either past or present and I suspect a lot of former premies feel this way. In a way I always feel like I'm treading a fine line looking in on this and other ex-premie forums. I don't want to be reminded of all the cult crap that I had to extricate myself out of during the eighties to become a (relatively) normal person again and the bullshit of the past can stay in the past as far as I'm concerned.However, curiosity always brings me back to take another look at what's going on here and while deftly stepping around possible cess pits of Maharaji's cult nonsense - understandably reproduced here to prove a point but triggering bad stuff within me - I find people's revelations interesting and often inspiring to read about still, mainly because they often mirror what I've been through in the past.
Related link: The Great Worldwide Linkup
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>However, curiosity always brings me back to take another look at what's going on here< It is IMO about ownership - the premies want to have the cult past unsullied by contrary views. To take the divorce comparison: premies would like it that we 'divorcees' walked away and never again mentioned any part of our lives (over half our lifetimes in many cases) in which the marriage was in effect. The fact that one rejects something from that past does not mean that one loses ownership of it - we lived it and we have every right to revisit it, explore it, deconstruct it, lazily remiss about it, laugh at it, and criticise it. "Cult history is for apostates not just for adherents" Nik
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ExPremies Explained Outside the premie audience this sort propaganda is too crude to have much use, although it certainly sustains the pro Rawat activists on Wikipedia. ExPremies Explained is simply too black and white for a disinterested audience, there is absolutely no allowance for anyone who offers criticism to be anything other than - "messed up", "sickies", "shaved heads", " [wannabe] bigshots", "[wannabe] Bishops", "[with] severe ego problems", "confused", "[with] egos invested in hatred", "bitter", "angry", "crazy", "people who [don't] move on", "deluded", "[in] denial", "jilted", "obsessed", "not healthy" - . Indulging in this kind of insular self-reassurance does suggest that there is a profound anxiety amongst premies that 'they' are under attack and that the 'identity' of the Rawat 'family' can not withstand the onslaught of criticism. The fundamental error in the approach of ExPremies Explained is that it does not allow that anyone might 'leave' because they have valid concerns. The implication is that everything in Rawat world has always been perfect and that any individual experience of dissatisfaction is purely personal in nature and requires only that the individual moves on to something more suited to their personal taste. The abuse of children, the waste of resources, the doubtful legalities and the ineffective organisations are all dismissed as having no relevance to the individual experience. This proposition may work for premies but in the wider world people are concerned about child abuse, about charities that misuse funds and organisations that make claims on which they do not deliver - and the wider world is sympathetic to those who report such things. The Hate Group scenario is a good device to keep the insiders "in" but it also has the effect of making all 'outsiders' feel uneasy about the nature of the insiders. The conclusion that many observers will come to is that 'hate', rather than being something directed at Rawat and premies from outside, is something which is endemic to Rawat world. Nik is IMO a pretty well crafted piece of propaganda, reminiscent of the kind of classification the Nazis did of non Aryan racial types. The function of this kind of thing is to make it look like there's a genuine consideration (a kind of 'science') that's been undertaken so that the ultimate conclusion appears based on fact. Of course it has only limited application and really only serves to reassure the Ubermenschen that their disdain for those who have been demonised, is justified. Referring to John MacGregor though (if not by name) was a nice touch - one only has to accept the 'premie truth' and the Untermensch regains his status amongst the chosen.
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It seems that everywhere you go these days, whatever you do, people want feedback. Stay in a hotel, buy a product, just pick up a taco at a fast food joint and there are the forms: "We want your feedback." So along comes this bozo who claims to be the saviour of mankind, Lord of the Universe, you name it. "Look at me! Look at me!" he mugged this way and that, "I'm the one! Trust me (not them, not them either) me!" And the one thing he doesn't want, can't accept, can't deal with on any reasonable, decent basis is good old-fashioned honest feedback. Poor Rawat, he picked the wrong yuga to act this way. Maybe if he comes back in say a quadrillion years or so things'll be different. But right now, this is clearly not a good time to stand in the way of customer suggestions and criticism. On a scale of one to five, did Guru Maharaj Ji deliver what he promised?
Modified by Jim at Sat, Dec 24, 2005, 14:41:18
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I mean, really, what kind of disinterested outsider could read that and not chuckle the word 'cult' within three paragraphs?
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Nigel,
I've come to the conclusion that the various attacks on ex-premies are intended to discourage the remaining premies from reading the ex websites, and to make the thought of becoming like the ex-premies as repugnant and unthinkable as the thought of becoming manmut was to us in the 70s.
In the same way, the purpose of all the awards and other attempts at making Rawat respectable are to show the remaining premies that Rawat is respected in the world, and that propagation is actually happening (even though he isn't and it isn't).
The sad thing is that from reading the premie forum I believe these tactics are working. Premies do seem to believe we are somehow aberrant.
John.
Modified by JHB at Fri, Dec 30, 2005, 07:04:24
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You're probably right, John, sorry to say. Maybe our one hope comes from non-premie acquaintances reading that forum over their shoulders and pointing out the glaring absurdities. Though I did know one premie who was tasked by EV to 'monitor' EPO back in 1998, and was an ex within six months through reading the forum - suspiciously at first, compulsively soon after. I think there is a curiousity factor in everybody, and premies even making negative references to EPO could easily backfire. ('Oh, I think I'll just have a quick look and see just how awful this hate group really is...' - Gotcha!)
Modified by Nigel at Fri, Dec 30, 2005, 07:37:35
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