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Hi Julie, Stick around as long as you can. I agree you can't be expected to talk in any way contrary to your experience. I must add though that people around here have generally allowed themselves a good look at what actually supports that experience. Al the best Bryn
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hi there Bryn, thank u for ur welcome abord, i liked that, u know Bryn a warm welcome is always a posative thing.to meet a person first thing in the morning a simply bid them good day is a wonderful thing, and sure wouldnt u and everyone else on earth agree with that? unless they are in bad form, u know what i mean Bryn. some people get caught up in thinging about things and would"nt be feelin the best at tall, at tall, but u know bidding them good day could put them in good form once again.maharaji is a grand fella as far as im concerned, meself and himself see eye to eye. eye have me eye on him, and he has his eye on me. ill say cheerio for now Bryn thanks once for ur warm welcome. julie Gopi
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Do you go around in the flesh like this, speaking in a cod Irish accent, nodding, winking, grinning, & taking the piss out of everyone you meet?
U've gorra no that pipple loike u mek pipple like me hurl. Y dunt u fokkin go & chuck yersel unner a fokking tren.
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hello PatD, hope u are happy and well. thanks for writing, i dont know why ur giving out to me about accents and all that stuff. im into love peace and harmony. if ive drank water and it has quenched my thirst, well my dear friend it has quenched my thirst and thats what im just saying!I! also have a good sence of humour Pat! im into practising Knowledge and enjoy it! Good to hear what u have to say though and u are entirely entitled to that, best wishes to you Pat. love Julie
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julie, have u ever thought it's possible that the thousands and thousands of hours u spent listening and watching rawat have turned your mind to mush? and that that's why you're stuck with that stupid grin on your face? do you know that you sound like one of the stepford wives? happy robots without minds of their own?
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Arguing with an idiot is like wrestling with a pig: its a giant waste of time
because you get muddy and the pig enjoys it The trouble with her is that she lacks the power of conversation but not the power of speech. ~George Bernard Shaw He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot. - Groucho Marx
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That's Jim - always goes for the jugular, as if a dose of logic will cure all ills. It's damn good for people who use logic in their own opinion forming, but I am not sure what the point is when it comes to dealing with people of apparently limited mental capacity. Wasn't it the same way with Isaac?
Any compassion there Jim for people who aren't up to your own reasoning abilities?
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Well, I'm quite happy to argue that there are limits to the usefulness of 'rationalism' but why on earth should Jim or anyone else put 'limits' on their own abilities because others are perceived to be less able ? And particularly so when the lack of ability is so 'willful'. I don't buy Julie's happy clappy, slippy dippy act for one minute, her reasoning abilities may well have been ossified by three decades of cultism - but she has been prompted to post here from some level of reasoning. IMO Julie's just playing adolscent - if she really were 14, with acne and a dreadful taste in music - of course she'd deserve compassion, as it is her stupidity is purely self imposed, a strategy akin to 'poor little me, please don't criticise'. If anyone posts on an ex premie forum they 'deserve' to be treated as an adult - seems to me that's exactly what Jim is doing. N
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I think you're really onto something, 13. Added portion -- 13, do you actually think this woman is mentally handicapped? Where's your evidence? The fact that she sounds like a cult member who has no capacity to question her cult leader? Aren't there a whole lot of premies who are equally ridiculous? Are you saying that they're all suffering from some mental disability? And if you don't really think Julie's suffering through life with a "limited mental capacity" why would you say so? Just to pick a fight for nothing? Either you actually believe that Julie's mentally handicapped -- something, by the way, that's far more offensive than anything I threw at her -- or you owe me an apology. But I would expect that a "compassionate" person like yourself doesn't need to be told when you've unfairly attacked someone. Right?
Modified by Jim at Sun, Feb 12, 2006, 13:12:11
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You missed the word 'apparently'. Obviously, there isn't enough evidence to judge. It's you suggesting the mushy mind. You brought the phrase 'mentally handicapped' into too now. If I thought Julie was mentally handicapped, I would keep that judgement to myself.
I just wonder what you hope to achieve by such attacks.
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You missed the word 'apparently'. Obviously, there isn't enough evidence to judge. It's you suggesting the mushy mind. You brought the phrase 'mentally handicapped' into too now. If I thought Julie was mentally handicapped, I would keep that judgement to myself.
I just wonder what you hope to achieve by such attacks.
You make me laugh when you say that if you thought Julie was mentally handicapped you'd keep it to yourself when, at the same time, you think it's okay to suggest she may have a "limited mental capacity". As if what you said isn't every bit as insulting. Besides, they really do amount to pretty much the same thing. I think you're just splitting hairs trying to maintain a dry foothold on your rock of self-righteousness. Apparently, I mean. As for what I hope to achieve, I don't know. Julie comes here and waives her brain-dead goomeragie flag at us and we see red. It's not rocket science. By the way, what are you trying to achieve by attacking me? What do you stand for anyway? Do you know? Do you have any idea?
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'As for what I hope to achieve, I don't know'
OK, that's established then.
All I was trying to achieve in this thread was to get you to consider what it was you wanted to achieve before you responded to your seeing red with your derision.
But anyway, in this case, it seems there's no harm done.
Check you private mail.
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and others are being so soft on this obviously despicable person who deifies a paedophille protector, misogynist and narcissist. Oh well, I also think Ariel Sharon was a softee pm!!!! PS Regards to JohnT(jonti) and Salaam(if the JDL didn't get him:>
Modified by Jethro at Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 02:34:15
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I actually think you can't always tell with premies ( at least here, online ) if they look like they might be the dullest knife in the drawer because the cult mindset or if its because they really are not dealing with a full deck, cult or not. More than once in the past I have been stunned to find someone who has posted here in the past and does leave the cult suddenly appear to have taken a great shift to the right on the bell curve. --Take that Joe and I still think I am right about Marlolyn as a mom ; ) --I have thought, Jim, don't be so mean to that person they can't help it they have to just be one of those bongos who would have been so cult or not. And then , they leave, and all the sudden they have a vocabulary, learn to spell even, and have rudimentary reasoning abilities. However, if it could be known for sure that Julie,( and forgive me Julie for saying your posts sound like you might not be fully capable of rational discussion), is one of those "bongo gopis" that really can't be held accountable, then well I think we should all just be nice to her and say hi Julie and leave it at that. On the other hand, if a person is mentally handicapped and joins a cult, are they better of in the cult or out and do they deserve the same effort to help them out. Maybe it would be elitist not to challenge them?
Modified by Susan at Sun, Feb 12, 2006, 15:57:48
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People definitely do dummy down for Rawat. It's just another coping mechanism, I'm sure of it. Best to take people at face value and try to discuss whatever with them rationally. Julie deserves ridicule because what she's saying is ridiculous. As you, Nik and others have so well said already.
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Premie means Lover, lover of the inner experience Susan! I was born alone, have my own journey and am very happy apart from the bills Susan! in relation to Maharaji whom ive known since he was a child of 13yrs I personally find him to be a perfect Gentleman! Thats my experience Susan, Love Julie
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You might have then found that he wasn't quite the perfect gentleman you think he is.
If you can be asked there is plenty of history of gm getting his lieutenants to pimp for him, and then gm treating them like shit, the girls that is.
But I'm also certain you won't allow any negativity to come into the equation, so I'm sure you won't follow this up.
And sorry to be so abrupt on first saying hello to you, but this delusion you're suffereing from re him being a perfect gentleman, is just that, a delusion. Of course I'm sure you're more than happy, like all gung-ho premies, to hang onto your delusion for fear of losing your experience with negative connotations. But that is also another delusion, in my experience the techniques work fine without the irrelevant security of guru doing a head nanny job.
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how are u Jim? ur a gas mam indeed. youve asked me a question and the answer is i havnt thought of any of that, if that answers ur question? Im a happy person anyway Jim and its good to know how to think, its also good to know how to stop the think, thanks for giving me a laugh, fair play to you. best Wishes Julie
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how are u Jim? ur a gas mam indeed. youve asked me a question and the answer is i havnt thought of any of that, if that answers ur question? Im a happy person anyway Jim and its good to know how to think, its also good to know how to stop the think, thanks for giving me a laugh, fair play to you. best Wishes Julie I'm fine, Julie. Thanks for asking. You know, somehow your saying that you never thought about whether or not all those thousands of hours of watching and listening to rawat have turned your brain to mush doesn't surprise me. Fair enough -- or, as you might say, fare enuf! But now that I'm asking, how about getting all crazy here and actually thinking about it? Go ahead, take your time. No rush. Think about whether or not that might have happened and please let me know what your answer is, once you've got one. You say, by the way, that it's good to know how to think. I say that Rawat has impaired your ability to think clearly, at least when he's the topic. What do you say to that? Do you know? Do you care? Fair play to you too! Jim
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I'm all in favour of love, peace & harmony myself, as indeed are the majority of people in this world. Aspiring to those things is hardly the prerogative of the followers of Prem Rawat.
Incidently how do you view the man these days. Full on Incarnation, half God half bottle of cognac, Motivational speaker with that added Divine oomph, or what ?
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Hi PatD Thank God ur in favour of love, peace, and harmony as most people are, and thats a great start Pat for all of us.I view Maharaji as I always have done and that is with the height of respect. ive met Maharaji many times and have always found him to be a perfect Gentleman> im delighted to have Knowledge and am delighted to practise it! take care Julie
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He asked: Incidently how do you view the man these days. Full on Incarnation, half God half bottle of cognac, Motivational speaker with that added Divine oomph, or what ? to which you simply said: I view Maharaji as I always have done and that is with the height of respect. Tell us, do you see him as a full-on incarnation of God, a bit of one or merely a motivational speaker? Fair play, Julie. Your words. Fair play means, among other things, not being evasive. Jim
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if ive drank water and it has quenched my thirst, well my dear friend it has quenched my thirst and thats what im just saying! So what are you saying it here for? You think we care? This ain't the place for satsang, Julie! Are you really that stupid? It just goes to show how wrapped up in your own silly little trip you are, completely oblivious to where others are at. So your thirst has been quenched. Big f**king deal. We don't care.
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"a warm welcome is always a posative thing.to meet a person first thing in the morning a simply bid them good day is a wonderful thing," A wonderful thing. I was over in Kilkenny last year. I'm a Welshman myself but the family came over from there a hundred years ago Dublin to Holyhead ferry I believe. They sure know how to talk in Ireland. What sort of talking have you been doing with Maharaji then? What did the man say to you? Come on tell us the story! All the best Bryn
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I remember many occacions talking to Maharaji! I got to go to a garden party at Maharajis home in Rygate and it was great, i dont mean the party itself, i didnt pay much attention to that, people there were dressed to the hilts ok, all looking swanky indeed, and u know Bryn I wasnt looking too bad myself, i had anice flower in my hair, clipped directly above my left ear, and that had me feeling swanky too! it was great, i remember walking in Maharajis gate and there he was, just standing there, i was delighted to see him, hes lovely! i was delighted and excited and thats the Gods honest truth.( Dont be minding now Bryn if im leaving out full stops and commas and wrong spellings here and there, sure here in Ireland we kinda do things a bit different) back to the story about talking to the Man himself! well Bryn we were all standing on the veranda and Maharaji strolled out looking cool and relaxed, shining like a light, well everyone seemed to just stand there looking at him, well in Ireland I was brought up to have manners and at least say thank u to the person whos party ur at, sure God above Bryn isint that common sence? So be God and be Gorra I took the floor and spoke to the Man himself, wheather anyone else liked it or not, get my drift so far Bryn? Be God Bryn, talk about talking, sure we can talk till the cows come home here in the Emerald! Hello Maharaji says I! (The cheek of me?) and on I went, thank u very much Maharaji for inviting me to ur party says I Bryn" and thank u very much Maharaji for coming to Dublin, as he had just been! then Maharaji spoke, repeating after me in such a loving manner"having fun with my Irish accent "DUBBLIN says he, "Yes says I DUBBLIN Maharaji "sure what else could u say to that now I was blissed out, i went on th say to Maharaji, Maharaji ive waited for 17 yrs for an opportunity like this to speak th u in this way, he says 17 yrs, i said yes 17yrs, i now have been practising Knowledge 33yrs to date!
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You tell it well. I can remember similar occasions for me too and when I was Maharaji's devotee, in Reigate too. Yer man Maharaji can talk the hind leg off a donkey himself though-and you know what Julie after 25 years of following his every word which I thought was poetry to my ears at the time I just got tired of listening to him. Really, nothing else. Thats enough thank you Prem. I just decided there and then that I was tired of appreciating him so much all the time and decided to listen to my own opinions for a while and put myself at the top of my list.I just took the floor for myself for a change. Sure thats heresy isn't it. But thats when a lot of good stuff started to started to happen to me Julie, and I haven't looked back-but as you say you've got to talk from your own experience haven't you, so each to his own. All the best to you now and if you have any more to say about Maharaji and what he's said to you face to face I'd be happy to hear your tale. Love Bryn
Modified by Bryn at Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 06:14:49
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How many Americans these days
do you hear saying 'son of a gun' , or Englishmen saying 'tophole old
fruit'.....well, you don't hear many Irishmen saying 'bejaysus &
beggorah' either, unless they're doing the old post-modernist ironic
double flip with pike type thing. Yet you use these anachronisms as
part of your charm...............sorry Julie, but if you aren't prepared
to answer questions about your faith, then maybe you'll feel like
explaining why you use language in this way.
Can I just say that professional Irishmen really piss me off. It's most unusual to find one who's a woman..........but there you go.
I'm not surprised that Rawat took the mickey out of your accent, it's just in keeping with the way he relates to people. He doesn't, in a word. I'm sure if you'd been invited to a Buckingham Palace Garden Party, (lot's of nobodies like you & I are), & the host had spoken to you in such a way, you'd have been mortally offended.
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and, I agree, its cringe worthy but, hey, maybe that's how she's always expressed herself in written form.In a few years time there'll be millions of current young English writing as adults " nah wotta mean bruv, innit?" hehehe. Still, once again, I agree it comes across as really contrived and stereotypical. Ironic, really, given that Ireland now has one of the best education systems in Europe ( especially Higher Education) with Irish gradutes head hunted in all sorts of fields. I bet they can spell and punctuate, too 
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She might even be using her brain creatively in ways that are unusual for premies of my acquaintance. Basically she's taking the piss out of anglo-perspectives of the Irish (nothing post-modern about it) And I can't say I blame her. Of course nobody now says 'be God, and be gorra' (as if they ever did) any more than the Scots go 'Och aye the the noo' or scousers say 'Dey, do doh, don't dey don't dey do? - know worra mean, like?' (except, in this last example, dey do doh..) Julie is evading serious discussion, for sure. If she weren't defending Maharaji, there wouldn't be an issue - but it's not even as if she were defending him as such. She likes him. Others criticise him. She doesn't. Her position, silly position, whatever... But if two dozen exes start getting simultaneously cross about that fact, they quickly end up looking as foolish as they imagine she does - if not more so, the more she stonewalls them. God knows, she's posing as live bait then leaping out of the water as soon as the sharks descend, teeth a-gleam. But give her some wiggle-room - make friends, even, and who knows? It's a bit of a novelty to have a real live premie in our midst, but - really - it's hardly a worthwhile task to carry out a group turkey shoot of someone who is probably the living image of our former selves. Especially (as 'Forum Nostradamus Award-winner of 2006', JHB, predicted lower down) it is something like a 20-to-1 discussion. To a casual outsider it could look like playground bullying. Personally, I prefer Bryns approach (never mind that hes a leek-eating, sheep-worrying Taff ) Nige
Modified by nigel at Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 16:20:15
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Dey do doh, doh, don't de doh? hahahahaa... I'm not really on a turkey shoot or anything, more amused than anything. I'm reminded of a few Premies when she mentions the darshan in Dublin. Just interested if she can get beyond the total, unquestioning, love and adulation level and go beyond it. Maybe she can't. I'm sure there are still many Premies who have no desire to take off the rose tinted specs, climb up onto the stage and then peek behind the curtains. " That feeling" is the worthwhile thing.It's truer than the truth and strong enough to last a lifetime. Such is the nature and power of delusion
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..where one 'takes off the rose tinted specs, climbs up onto the stage and then peeks behind the curtains'.. ..is what got all of us all barking at the Fraudulent Wiz. But I'm just not sure that too much barking helps for others who've not yet dared peep behind the curtain. I've under no illusions about the power of delusion - and I still have many delusions, which I take twice daily to keep me sane; and I certainly wasn't addressing my post to you personally, Dermot - more towards the thread in general. Just the way Julie is presently teasing everybody and declining to engage on their terms, and by saying nothing almost ends up making her detractors look all the more sad for even trying. It's as if there were a cunning intelligence at work... As a keen amateur dentist and brain surgeon, I know about many things. Trust me Nige
Modified by nigel at Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 19:47:21
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I take your point, but actually you responded in a somewhat, ahem, non kindly way to her original post before I did.
Then, after Mike had said that she wasn't some sort of malicious piss taker, I did modify my subsequent posts as far as I'm able to.
I swear on the soul of my sainted aunt in heaven, the spirits of my ancestors, & my lucky rabbit charm, that I'll never respond with a straight left hook to anything she says again.
I reserve the right however, to throw in the occasional uppercut, just for the feckin divilment you understand.
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Message understood, Roger and out., Pat. Absolutely, like I just said to Dermot above my post was more directed to the thread in general, and posing the suggestion that Julie is a LOT more intelligent than anyone here is giving her credit for. And yes, I know my original post to Julie was unforgivable, but I've forgiven myself now that I have apologised and she has forgiven me my aberration, and passed my apologies upwards to 'the Great Fat Paki in the Sky' (copyright Loaf, 2000) quote: > Oh he's the Great Paki in the Sky! He's the Great Paki in the Sky! With the bullshit and the blarney, He's the greatest Pakistani, He's the Great Fat Paki in the sky! > Loaf and I did a recording of it, but I was always uncomfortable about the factual innacuracy and hint of racial slur, but couldn't help laughing at the time. (You wanna put it on the web, Ham?) We also recorded Larkin's Arti. Loaf had a fabuous voice and fabulous laugh but we've not spoken since the recent Exes farrago... *sigh*
Modified by nigel at Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 19:42:12
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You'll be the death of me ,Nigel,you will.
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You'll be the death of me, Nigel, you will. Bet you I'll be worm food before anyone else here, Lex. I've put the practice in - you can't just wing it...
Modified by nigel at Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 20:04:30
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Must be the grace that I opened up a post by you referring to me, much better to e-mail fella, don't spend a lot of time here at the mo
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Bloody, loaf the thieving poof, he nicked that from me! Huh cheek. You check with him. That was one of my first drips. We were working on a street theatre thing and I couldn't bring myself to sing it-compose it yes, but sing it no. He however had no such qualms. Copyright and shame claimed explicitly here by me. Love to all minorities welsh, irish, gay, hungry ghosts, et al Bryn
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"having fun with my Irish accent "DUBBLIN says he,"
And you didn't find this insulting? Good God, what's wrong with you? (You can spell Dublin, can you not? I'm assuming this is a representation of the lord mispronouncing the capital of the country. Or is it something else?)
Julie, I am in Ireland frequently, I know many people who live in Ireland quite well. Among them both quiet people who rarely go about and highly educated, well-traveled people. None of them speak like you do. And I am quite positive that none of them write like you do...or like you try to do. They were taught, as were you, the proper use of language. The only time anyone in Ireland talks the way you seem to be trying to, is to put on a bit of a show to impress the Yank tourists. So knock it off already, it's annoying in the extreme. And it makes you look like a "fekkin' eedjit". I can't think many Irish people would thank you for this sort of stereotypical blarney show.
There are a couple of quotes from your maharaji, direct quotes, which I'd like you opinion on. The first is:
"The chances are you've
never seen the other side of me. You've seen the event side of me when
I'm on stage. But there is another side of me. If you evoke that side,
you won't like it. It's a nasty side. You don't want to see that side.
You're not missing anything by not seeing it." - Prem Rawat, Arundel England, 23rd July 1999.
Can you tell me more about this nasty side, if you can come out from the bliss for a few minutes?
And the second is:
"If you find a candle you are also going to find some
matchsticks around it that did not quite light. The
generosity of the master is at fault here. Some people
should not have received Knowledge, they came for something
else."
Now, even in Ireland, it's the matches that light the candle, not the opposite. Since you have the bliss, perhaps you could explain just what he meant by that statement. He is all-knowing, I've heard him say it. Why did he screw up by giving these people his precious knowledge? Hmmm, maybe not so smart after all? Maybe he's the fekkin' eedjit?
Modified by Premie_Spouse at Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 14:47:32
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Julie, You sound like someone who's spent their whole life pretending to be simple and childlike. No big, complicated adult thoughts for you! Your head's filled with Maharaj's mind-numbing fairy tales like this bullshit about the "power that breathes" you -- a myth if there ever was one! -- or the idea that "every day [you're] going deeper and getting closer to [your] real destany [sic]" -- more bullshit and misspelled to boot. If you're a happy premie like you say you are, you're mind is like a banzai tree. It's cute but, as trees go, it's unnaturally stunted and pathetic. You could have been so much more.
Modified by Jim at Fri, Feb 10, 2006, 09:16:15
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I was once occasionally like Julie.... but I think Julie must be a caricature.
Modified by Lexy at Fri, Feb 10, 2006, 17:46:33
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"Tough love"! What a phrase that is. If Julie was more than a troll's creation I would like to hear one sentence from her on her point of view-it would be interesting. Whats the advantage of harranging (sp?) her?. Jeez Its making me defensive about my spelling now But of course...wotever. Bryn
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Bryn, If Julie's for real, she deserves to be told that, here at least, or, more accurately, with some of us at least, smarmy empty-headedness doesn't pass as cute. Rather, it's disgusting. By the way, what do you think of the "banzai tree" thing? I must say, I made my own morning with that one.
Modified by Jim at Fri, Feb 10, 2006, 17:03:57
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I liked your bonsai tree analogy Jim. Made my whole afternoon.
I agree that whatever Julie is doing is not cute. I assumed she wasn't for real, anyway. Maybe a premie-patch writing a group post. But still, ick.
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Its a bummer that sometimes I read something and really laugh and forget to say hey that was really funny I know what you mean about making your own morning , once recently I just couldn't get over how funny I was giggling to myself over and over. I am sure it was quite a pathetic site.
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hope you enjoyed it though Susan, gigg ling to yourself. love Julie.
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At least, by 'real' I mean that she is not a troll or a group of premies taking the piss, but that is really her and what she is like - I know her!Interesting malapropism Jim, 'banzai' tree! Banzai of course is what the Japanese yell as they charge in for the final kamikaze onslaught, rather like the American 'Geronimo'. As premie_spouse said, I think you mean 'bonsai tree'. I like your metaphor, but it breaks down if pushed too far - a bonsai tree is cute, and something you have as decoration to look at, whereas a stunted mind like you describe is not a pretty sight at all. Still, a good metaphor for the early morning!! Actually, I think 'banzai' rather suits you... -- Mike
www.MikeFinch.com
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But I'm a bit confused about Julie now. To be honest, when I replied to her I thought she was for real, goofy, empty-headedness and all. Then when others posted assuming she was just a premie parody, I thought that must be true and felt a bit embarrassed that I didn't catch it. But now you say she's for real and I assume you're not joking because you don't sound like you are. But then I read her latest post above and I think, "No, she can't be for real. ...................................Can she?" If she's legit I'm Godsmacked all over again!
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Except I thought 'spoof' straight way, since Aunt Bea and others were discussing pretending to be premies just lower down, and then Julie appears right on cue, using the surname Sir Dave used to... And now (because I believe Mike), I realise I have titled a post to her: 'Curl up and die, premie. We're a hate group and everybody hates you!' when she's a real person... Oh dear...gulp! (fortunately the post was still editable.)
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I assure you both (Jim and Nigel) that she is who she says she is, that she talks and thinks like that, and always has as long as I have known her.But she is Irish, or course, and that can explain a lot...(whoops, don't want to get into touchy territory here). -- Mike
www.MikeFinch.com
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Mike, She sounds like she's been lobotomized and I don't care if she sees me saying that about her. If she wonders why she makes that impression, that's a good thing. If not, then it's all water off a duck's back anyway, so who cares? Mind you, it's not as if we all don't know premies who put on the happy like this. Even when I was in the cult, I used to laugh at various brothers and sisters who were so wilfully dorky. But I guess there are other issues. For one, are they good looking? Good looking girls can get away with being ditzy or, as here, spiritually ditzy. Of course that gets a little thin as the years go by ...
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Hi, Jim, I must tell you that, even if I don't totally agree with your posts sometimes, I continue to love them. That one of the bonsai tree was brilliant. Yeah, I agree too about the age aspect. The poet Yeats said (about Constance Mackiewitz): The innocent and beautiful
have no enemy but time which I always thought quite dumb. No, most people are forced to grow up, which means attempting to adapt to the realism of adult life, which hopefully means continuing their ideals in meaningful context with others. Good luck to Julie, but as I have said below, just this tripping out on loveliness often seems a form of continued experiential virginity which begs for reality. Maybe she is a natural saint, I don't know, but this usually becomes pretty threadbare as life progresses.
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'Maybe she is a natural saint, I don't know, but this usually becomes pretty threadbare as life progresses.' I like this last phrase, Anth. It echoes what Moley just posted at the foot of this thread. Please all read...
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I didn't read your answer below to my post. As I told you by private email, I just thought there had been a bit of insensitivity to quite a nice person being a Buddhist. I didn't read chris's either. The joke about horses was from another forum where we were both well laughing together. After a couple of years banter, it seems we should be good buddies. I like you, nige. Take care of yourself, Anth
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Modified by nigel at Sat, Feb 11, 2006, 19:21:38
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the innocent and beautiful have no enemy and time is their friend eternally Jim. love Julie. thanks Jim for ur wishes of good luck¬ im a natural Saint indeed Jim and sure who could tell u better than myself except Maharaji himself, love julie
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to the nape of her nut-brown hair,
such a coaxing elf, I'd to shake myself
to see she was really there. Hi, Julie, Actually it was I who said that about the innocent and beautiful, and whom you should be thanking about the saint bit.
The poetry quoters these parts are usually PatD and myself, with nigel providing original copy. Jim is the master dielectician, with often highly pertinent fugurative images (banzai trees, Stepford wives, etc.) to reinforce his vital insights. However, to turn to the quoted song, I am sure you will recognise this as the Star of the County Down, a traditional number which has been very beautifully reprised by Van Morrison among others, and which deals with a pure unspoiled colleen dwelling inback in the boonies. Musing on your posts, my initial reaction has been to see you maybe a bit in this light - living remotely from any substantial premie society, so you can maintain a utopian view of its realities. However, I see you have spoken to Maharaji many times (exactly when, incidentally, out of curiosity, apart from the after 17 years practice meeting?). It seems to me that the nature of the premie world is often to wear people down through all the various dichotomies it evokes in peoples' behavour, which veers away often disastrously and weirdly from the initial innocent optimism. Through merely telling people to concentrate on meditation, videos and such, and think in terms of oneself, K and Maharaji, to the apparent exclusion of all else, it seems to me that Prem is knowingly or otherwise creating a world of much egocentricity, in which his followers become oblivious or disregarding of their links with and responsibilities towards other humans. Pursuit of that pure experience becomes the only goal. This is so apart from normal human reality, which is or should be about giving and sharing with others in order to grow, that it can (extremely) resemble a substance high. To devote one's life to concentrating on a high which is found internally alone, or through focus upon an object of worship, be this a stone, figurine, crucifix or Maharaji, to the exclusion of human relationship, can demand a fearful eventual toll. Where I live, there is a local woman who is white haired, and dresses in her original hippy garb from the 60s (or clones thereof). She had seen the film The Doors (about the eponymous band and Morrison) 27 times the last time I ran into her. I hope you're not like that, Julie. I agree with Ham above that one can appreciate meditation personally without attributing the results to others. I find myself that through meditation I experience a sense of being relaxed within myself, and can sometimes hear a quiet personal voice inside. Whether that is the subconscious voice or something traditional and spiritual isn't necessarily the point. The main thing is to experience such independently of having to pay for it directly or indirectly to others, and remain a balanced outgoing responsible socially oriented person. So saying, I hope you prosper, Julie, as you seem a good-natured person. Anthony
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Laugh Out Loud Nigel ! Is this forum getting very funny or is it me getting sick!
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It's a good forum where people post happily among friends. I've been wondering about you. I noted the bit below about the disembodied loving power. I still believe this. There is nothing at all about leaving Maharaji which excludes all the preceding stuff about a loving God. Get back to the roots, as Dermot might say. In this case, it's a good God who is still on your case, Lexy. So lift yourself up. You are still remembered, I'm sure. You're a great and honest person. Take care of yourself, Anthony
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that Julie is real. I know a few people like her in real life, in that case.
There are always a few who just pass through K and the whole premie scene nationally and locally quite untouched by the politics, conundrums and the contradictions, and who say things like: Just remember the Word and you'll be all right. I find this very engaging, but on the whole not very realistic in general, as one of the whole problems in the K scenario is that we just can't remember the Word, or be focused all the time, and if we were to be so nice, we would have to be of such an evolved consciousness that we would always be doing the right thing and being kind and generous anyway. Which maybe leads to my own conclusion anyway from being inside, which is that there were/are many premies who are sweet-natured, with no animus towards anyone, and love-filled. Unfortunately, there are always others who are less benevolent, self-serving or just really sods. And that's where the Maharaji/K system seems to break down - that a basic reference to fundamental ethics should be incorporated. We need to be reminded to be decent, fair-minded and sensible people. Personally, I love meditation, but I think I would be a fool to believe that this is infallible on its own as an approach to life, without being a questioning and hopefully decent-minded person on the way. Just instinctively being a good Joe and trying to live this way seems to me the best anyway, before considering the rest. By being so, I think we can find a natural harmony inside us. We maybe also become aware of a deep inner voice which teaches us and supports us, and a very pleasant sense of being at one with life generally, which may just be an effect of consciousness by its ordinary nature or something spiritual.
Modified by Anthony at Sat, Feb 11, 2006, 12:58:15
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made my 10 minutes or so. If I had thought of it myself it would have made my week. In fact I'm pretending I thought of it myself right now, and feeling pretty damn smug.
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..a pert little metaphor yes, but fundamentally self-indulgent. Ooooh how I love it when people ask for my opinions. Yo Bryn
Modified by Bryn at Sat, Feb 11, 2006, 22:02:35
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I remember you from the old days, always blissfully happy and innocent. Flowers in your hair at every opportunity, dancing in the aisle. Yep, I sure remember you. Glad to see you aboard, however please be careful in your choice of puddings. Many puddings are very tasty, but can leave a very unpleasant after effect. How is your dad by the way - the reverend that is. T
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was always dancing in the aisle with the flowers in your hair. I remember you from AllyPally 73 to one of the later Romes always getting in my view of the LOTU form onstage.
Were you in cahoots with that big German bloke with the huge head who seemed to follow me from prog to prog and sit just in front? Many was the time, Julie I wished someone would give you service in the car park maybe a quarter of a mile away, and you could dance to your heart's content. At that time I thought it was just Mister Mind tempting me.
Now I think you may just be a bit of a bongo, or some fiction by one of those naughty Australian premies. If, however, I'm wrong, do enjoy meditation, but don't get hooked into ascribing your experience or otherwise to any other human being and especially avoid getting wrapped up in some strange org where people are always scrambling over each other to be the kings of the scene or get all the bliss. Keep dancing.
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Well, yes, I do agree that love and peace is a great experience. But if it really were as simple as your post presents, this world would be a very different place. There's a lot of controversy surrounding Prem Rawat's version of love and peace, and I assume you are aware of the controversy and simply choose not to address it in your note. You obviously want to believe that Rawat is a great fella altogether, and the distinctions about LOTU vs Inspirational Speaker are distinctions that you apparently allow to go in one ear and right out the other. Unfortunately, besides not being the LOTU, Rawat might not even qualify for good fella status if he knew about Jagdeo before 1999. And I, for one, am convinced that Charan Anand told him in 1985.* (see note below) Besides the many other controversies like the Jagdeo one, there is an immediate problem with your post here, and that is the philosophy of practicing Knowledge as you describe it. I have a very strong suspicion that you have experienced Knowledge in the same way that I did when I practiced from 1975 to 1997. Your ideas that you are continually going deeper to your destiny and that you are tuning into the power that breaths you are way overblown descriptions of what actually is a very simple experience of meditation that is common to all people who practice a wide variety of meditation techniques. The problem with Rawat and his version of meditation is that he connects it with a life-long apprenticeship between the person who practices Knowledge and himself as the master. This may not be a problem for you personally but I guarantee you that it is a very big problem for the vast majority of Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, scientists, and your ordinary Joe-Blow out there. And it is a problem for me because I have come to understand that my life and my destiny have absolutely nothing to do with Prem Rawat and his instructions for life-long studentship to himself. So love and peace? No problem. Just realize that the baggage that comes with Prem Rawat and his philosophy of life is where we will not be agreeing with you. Best wishes to you, also, and thanks for posting. By the way, are you going to Ft. Lauderdale? Remember to maintain those priorities! *For information about the Jagdeo problem being discussed with Charan Anand in 1985, do a goggle search for Abi's open letters to Maharaji, Charanand, Randy and Judy. Be sure to read the Apr. 12, 2001 letter and not just the Apr. 15th letter.
Modified by Will at Fri, Feb 10, 2006, 15:06:12
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>love and peace is a great experience dont you agree?< Is your proposition that the absence of the experience of love and peace is NOT great' ? or Is your proposition that the experience of the absence of of love and peace is 'NOT great' ? or Is your proposition that the experience of the opposite or contrary to love and peace is 'NOT great' ? If your answer is yes to any of these, does that not imply that Rawat teaches that human existence is profoundly dualistic - and that therefore the sense of being at one that so many premies lay claim to, must surely be just an illussion ? And if in fact your position is that all experience is 'great' - why focus on love and peace, which would surely be but a small part of human experience ? Just wondering. N
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Sounds like you're into the power of positive thinking. But where's the beef, Julie? Is there any besides your happy thoughts about it? Doesn't really sound like it. But what do I know. I can be a real grouch. grumble, gumble. Yeah, I can be a real cynic. But the thing is, besides all your flowery ideas about things, what have you really got? I just don't see how putting on a happy face is the road to true happiness. It's just a facsimile of it. It sounds like that's what you've settled for. I suppose you could be as happy as you make yourself out to be. But I don't know. It just don't seem real to me. Sorry, don't mean to rain on your parade, but this is really the wrong place to come if you're expecting to exchange happy thoughts. We're kinda grumpy about Maharaji and all his happy horseshit. Maybe you're just testing us to see if we're really the curmudgeons you've heard we are by flying through here like the good witch of the east (west) with a big smile on her face, testing us to see if we'll throw eggs or happy smiley thoughts back your way. Cuz, seriously, you've got to know that this place has got a rep for throwing eggs at your kind of bullshit. So, what gives? You're putting us on, right?
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its as easy to think posative Jerry as it is negative and thats the beef my friend!Its ok to be a cynic Jerry ur entitled to that, my ideas are flowery and so is my experience and thats what ive got Jerry. putting on a happy face is not the road to true happiness ur right, being happy is the true road. u suppose i could be as happy as i make myself out to be, and that i am Jerry wheather anyone objects or disagrees doesnt matter, after all its my experience isint it?Im not putting anyone on, sure god above almighty now what would I want to be doing a silly thing like that for! I respect all of u and ur opinions which all are entitled too. best wishes Julie
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Certainly you must have heard of the notorious, rebellious ex-premie forum before you posted, so why did you? What kind of reaction did you think you would get as a still devoted premie expressing her enthusiam for Maharaji and Knowledge? I don't get it. If I was a devoted premie, I'd never come near this place. What for? What would be gained?
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hello Jerry! I have heard of the ex Premie forum before I posted, so why did I u ask me. I expected whatever reaction each person wanted to give me! everyone is entitled to give their personal opinion just like I am> i am a devoted premie and have no problem interacting with people who like me got knowledge! If anyone is upset about Maharaji well naturally im interested especially if I can be of any help to anyone. my gain is i like communication and being open minded and hearing others views! People feel what they feel for some reason or other, i feel the forum is a great idea. best wishes Jerry. julie
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My apologies to Julie - I just read Mike's post saying that you are for real. I thought it was one of the regulars here pretending to be a premie, hence my facetious comments, if you saw them. (It's a coincidence that you happen to have the same surname as an earlier spoof poster, and I think a few of us here jumped to the wrong conclusion.)
Modified by nigel at Sat, Feb 11, 2006, 01:52:03
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hi Nigel, thank u for being such a softie and saying sorry! im as real as I am no doubt! Iheard about Maharaji way back in 1973 in a restaurant named"The Good Karma" Cool name ey Nigel> Take Care and best wishes Julie. Nigel its easy to jump to the wrong conclusion, isint it?
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(...there's no such animal in my world-view.) While good wishes are always welcome, Julie, I wouldn't call myself a 'softie' - more a case of pitching my replies at an appropriate level, and my orginal comment was, shall we say, more than a little OTT as a welcome to the forum. As for 'taking care' - I think you're probably more in need of that advice if you intend to spend any time here batting for Mr. Rawat. I don't envy you Anyway, it should prove interesting if you do stick around... Nigel
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Hi Nigel, i have no problem chatting on the forum, im quite enjoying hearing what people have to say! Ive been busy lately Nigel as my Husband just passed away on 9th Feb.Our Daughter and 2 Sons have been upset due to their Dads sudden departure! Thats part of life Nigel.Ive been practising Knowledge for 33 yrs and I personally have no complaints, but have no problems understanding others been upset about things that have happened to them! I come from a large Family and was taught to hear everyones views. Best Wishes. Julie
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Hope I'm not talkin' out of turn here, but I look after elderly Irish nuns for a living. They're great. You remind me of them, 'specially in the colloquial way you have of talking. I'm not going to contradict what you are saying (even though your Maharaji experiences are a few light years from mine!). The nuns got to be nuns pretty young. Mostly because the Catholic Church ( as you probably know - I'm guessing your age here) went 'propagating' into schools, and also because , in a big family, it was kinda expected that one would go into holy orders. One of my nuns died two weeks ago. She was from Co. Cork, a farmer's daughter. She became a nun very young, not knowing if it was the right thing to do, but she made the best of it. She surely had a lot of faith. I watched her die. I kissed her when she was dead. I hope, for her sake, that she still exists. But I don't think she does. It makes me very sad that her whole life she was 'in love' with Jesus. I hope, for her sake, her love wasn't illusory. But I know it was. Deeper and closer to my real destiny - Yeh, she could have said that too.
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nice to say hello to you Moley! ive done nursing too, and have watched people die. My Family lived in England and Ireland when my ten Brothers and Sisters went to school! ur Nun friend knew about her own experience with God or Jesus whatever she called that power. u say she was in love with a Teacher from the past Jesus, a sure theres nothing wrong with that! love is an experience not a thought. love to u and keep up the good work, and watch u dont hurt ur back helping those old lady nuns, arent they gas Moley? love Julie x
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Hi Julie,It's great to see you here, even though this place is for ex-premies! There is a premie forum too, but they don't tolerate any suggestions that M is the lord there, so you have to be careful what you say. I've been wondering, are you the premie who, a couple of years ago at Ally Pally, got thrown out of the private audience that M held with the premie elite? She was thrown out because she wasn't considered the right 'type' of premie for that exclusive event, which was held, I believe, to reward major donors. A live video was broadcast to the premies sitting in the main hall area, and they had been told that M was in a studio elsewhere in London. In fact, he was right there, yards away from the main hall in Ally Pally, in a different room, holding a private event for all the important and special premies, and major donors. I think quiet a few premies in the hall smelled a rat, but they probably felt too insulted to go and find the room and possibly not be let in. Just wondered if that was you! What an elitist and money orientated organisation M has created though, don't you think? Anna
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Is there anything you could find out that Prem Rawat did, anything at all, that would cause you to stop following him? Here is an example, I have never heard that he has murdered a five year old but lets just say he did. Lets say you saw him do it. Lets say he told you it was Lila and you were in your mind and thinking too much when you got upset about it. Again, I am not saying he did this, its just one of the worst things I can think of and I want to see if anything he could possibly do would matter to you. Respectfully, Susan
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god above almighty Susan, im a Mother myself and never believed in hitting a child, so naturally i dont agree with anyone hurting anyone! Maharaji has only expressed love and kindness to me and my Family in all the years we have known him¬ hes kind Susan and wouldnt hurt anyone, he is here to bring peace¬ I know Maharaji is a good Man God Bless his good heart. love Julie
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As with Pat, Julie, you didn't answer Susan's question. What exactly do you mean by "fair play" anyway? Hopefully something. What?
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I can change it to something else if you like. I just wanted to know if there is ANYTHING he could do that would make you change your mind about him? I gave you a horrible example so we established how horrible a thing could be. Here is another untrue horrible example. If Rawat were to take a gun at the next event and shoot every other premie and then tell the rest they were meant to live- would you still believe in him? All I want to know is could he do anything at all ever, as horrible as you can possibly imagine, to make you say he isn't a good man anymore? Respectfully, Susan
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hi Susan , im into love peace and harmony so naturally i would never approve of anyone doing any unkindness wheather it was Maharaji or anyone else! My experience of Maharaji over the last 33yrs has been good! I went to see Maharaji for the first time in 1973, London and Huston Texas> Ive seen lots of badly behaved people around Maharaji and have always found Maharaji himself to be a perfect Gentleman! Any Man who does horrible things to anyone i dont approve of Susan> I am a sensative person and have common sence! Im a Mum and have taught my Daughter and Sons to be kind, so naturally i wouldnt approve if Maharajidid anything but good. love Julie
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supposing supposing 3 men were frozen, 1 died how many were left? love Julie. take care Susan.
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Two? I didn't really understand what point you were trying to make there Julie.However, I think Susan asked an excellent question, and one that I've often wondered myself. What are the limits of Maharaji's behaviour that a premie would tolerate? If smoking, drinking, womanising, killing a man and paying off a premie to take the blame (ie lying to the courts), withholding information from premies in -order to paint a false picture - and lying about our past, isn't enough, then WHAT IS?? Stardust
Modified by Stardust at Thu, Mar 09, 2006, 18:25:58
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How would you feel if you KNEW Prem had protected a paedophille for years and killed a person by running them over and them letting someone else take the blame? (as well as giving the person who took the blame a payoff)
Modified by Jethro at Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 02:19:07
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hi Jethro the thing is i dont know anything about Maharaji except good, so therefore i dont have too feel anything but good about him! Hes a very nice gentleman from my experience of knowing him over the last 33yrs>does that answer ur question Jethro. best wishes Julie
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" the thing is i dont know anything about Maharaji except good, so therefore i dont have too feel anything but good about him! Hes a very nice gentleman from my experience of knowing him over the last 33yrs>does that answer ur question Jethro. best wishes Julie" No, you did not answer my question as you well know. Your (premie) avoidance technique is transparent and insulting. I just don't believe that you are what you present here. I am just another bongo ex-premie cognitive dissonant. Please dont reply to me. Sincerely Jethro
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Hi Juli, all I think, when I read your post that you are a premieclown. You are just here to get some mindfull feedback that you surely don't get on a premieforum. I hope you like some rational answers. In a situation like in these days, premies should really question their inner believe system. Aren't there too many people, that are too convinced by their emotional feelings like a lot of religious people, racists, different cults and all the followers of masters, gurus, teachers, inspirators. The world falls apart in new tribes and the cult around Maharaji is one of those irrational groups and that is dangerous, wether you see it or not. What is this knowledge really? Some simple technic! Do you think you feel different to other people? You don't know! You may think you feel different. The one thing that makes the difference is that you accept Maharaji as some one special, and of course he is special, he is the one who is more deluded than others because he thinks he has something important to teach. All he teaches is a cheap form of: Be happy go lucky and look inside. When you don't see the light brigther than the sun, then you have to listen more and more participation is requiered. I've tried it, but I'm grown up now and in retrospect the best thing were my time with some premies. What I've learnt from him is that I only can trust my own experience, he has nothing more to offer than sweet words. Yes, he knows to manipulate a big crowd of listeners. Maharaji is the problem and he offers only a solution for people who are neurotic enough who want to have something to believe in. I'm cured, today he only is a bad exsample that helped me to wake up. wolfie
Modified by wolfie at Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 05:41:35
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Hi, somethings too funny hovering around the words of Gopi Juli Smyth. My suppose is, that this is the writing of a paroding ex-premie. This writing is real satiric. She got knowlegde 73 and never had a dull moment since 73, that must be somekind of a alien. "Hi Juli, I would like to sit with you a thousand years on a sofa watching wonderful videos of Maharaji would't this be wonderful......this must be paradies!!!!!" love ....wolfie
Modified by wolfie at Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 07:37:30
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I know premies like Julie. They are the true followers of Prem Rawat's philosophy. It is contained in the story about the sieve. You retain the good, and let go of the bad. Unconditional love is another of their pet phrases. When a human being really, really takes this philosophy seriously, they then become eligible to become one of Rawat's human-building-blocks-for-world-peace. Once they have identified Prem Rawat and Knowledge as their icon for the Good, then it is very difficult for them to see any bad. To them it would seem like retaining the bad. The problem with these people is simple, they have misplaced truth and substituted the merely positive. As human afflictions go, this one is rather harmless throughout life. It is infuriating for some of us to be around these people, but that, too, does not bother them. The post of Julie's that makes me cringe the most is the Reigate party story. When Rawat is informed that a person has been waiting 17 years for the opportunity to have a little conversation with him, (putting him on a pedestal) he responds in a manner that is SO NOT like "a good fella" (he allows it). He responds like the true megalomaniac he is. This is so mentally ill that it's nearly inhuman. These people (master and followers) deserve each other and I do not think this particular cult will ever disintegrate into actual bloodshed. Rawat, too, is a sieve. He has to be, or he would go insane. I just hope he continues to diminish quietly over time. I know he curses and has a foul mouth and a huge potential for anger, but he will probably keep this side hidden from Julie and his building-blocks-for-world-peace. As long as they keep each other comforted and keep wearing their rose-colored glasses, things shouldn't get too ugly. Anybody with a regard for truth, which fortunately is most of us, will simply have to stick with our own values and provide a counter perspective. If all cults were as benign as Rawat's it wouldn't be a problem, but we have Mohammed's militant legacy to handle at the moment, to cite just one of so many examples. Truth and beauty are all that we need, but we do need both of them, people.
Modified by Will at Mon, Feb 13, 2006, 13:13:14
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Hi Will, in one way your are right, but I think Julie makes fun of us. I knew a lot of premies, since I got a cult member in 73. No one, who gone through this changes since 73 to 2006 like Julie could be so stupid to see not the irony that is with this whole trip. Those old premies hold on to their emotional conviction and will defend the whole trip but they are normally not so stupid. Neurotic yes, but not so stupid not to see the irony in PR' world. At least I hope that for her. love ...wolfie
Modified by wolfie at Tue, Feb 14, 2006, 02:00:55
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