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...was he emancipated? ��� turey.
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If memory serves correctly, he went to court and stated that he wished to marry Marolyn because she would help him in his work (the amused judge granted permission for the marriage).� After all, not many 26-year olds want to marry 16-year olds, eh?
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If memory serves
correctly, he went to court and stated that he wished to marry Marolyn
because she would help him in his work (the amused judge granted
permission for the marriage).� After all, not many 26-year olds want to
marry 16-year olds, eh?
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....I imagine eyebrows would be raised if this was to be ���� attempted today. �����
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Along with Rawat's 1971 Visa to get into the US, which he got in London without his mother, I've long found this to be one of the murkiest episodes. My guess is that Charananand's 'guardianship' had a significant influence on the authorities in both cases. The Cagan text puts a gloss on how it was Prem who convinced the Judge - the usual voodoo stuff. Are the Court Papers publicly accessible ? Nik
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Rawat desperately wante to stay in the States, both to enjoy the luxuries and the worship and to wrest away control of the mission in the west from his mum. But Dettmers said it was really more the latter.� Apparently, he had some kind of visa of the type that� priest or clergy would get, and he was also a minor so that was taken into account as well.� Without his Mother's permission, he might have to get married to get actual permanent residency. You can marry at age 16 both in Colorado and California (or you could at the time), so that would usurpt the need for his Mum's permission, and then, being married to an American, he could apply for legal residency. But really, according to Dettmers, it was a power play to get control of the mission in the west from his recalcitrant monther. Otherwise, why would he get married at 16?� I wouldn't have made any sense if there were other things at play. I mean, he was already having sex with Marolyn at that point, and I'm sure she would have been fine just being his girlfriend.� So the marriage was for other reasons.
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I think he was really and truly head over heals 16 year old boy smitten and in love with Marolyn. He acted that way. I think he wanted to marry her because at that point in his 16 year old life she was all he could ever imagine wanting. Premlata arrived 10 or 11 months later....so that doesn't sound like the reason. But maybe they wanted to have babies. They sure had a lot of them...and fast.
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I had always privately imagined that he got married for respectability. Extra-marital sex, (and taking relationship and marriage choices out of the control of the parents) was still quite sternly frowned upon in India; especially for one so young and with so public a persona, particularly given all the "holy" stuff it was built around.
I secretly thought to myself that at first it must have been feared that he had "blown it" in a moment of madness, and risked damaging his reputation: not clearly seeing all the involved planning that went before until later, and still believing their association to be genuinely in the course of service, (his new cabinet idea), and more circumstancial.
In our eyes he was still quite impeccable. The flaws I had begun to see, from my personal involvement, I assumed were all in my mind. Even when the emperor took off his clothes we still saw him fully dressed.
But I was too personally involved with the car, the Chevy Impala I drove with Raja ji until it's side was stove in, in Houston, not to recognize it. Despite the almost matt black respray job and the wigs and sunglasses on its two occupants as it cruised Hollywood.
Pieces started to fall into place when the wigs showed up in the dark, at a showing of the air hostess part of the new movie, in the editing room.
(Before anyone asks M. was wearing a large, curly, blonde "Afro" like Dustin Hoffman's Tootsie.) (No: on second thoughts it was more like Harpo Marx's.)
Modified by Lp at Wed, May 16, 2007, 06:40:21
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In our eyes he was still quite impeccable.
You know, that's a word I've come to detest. I don't know why really, as I don't have a problem with the idea it represents, which is 'faultless', as in 'impeccable design'. It must be due to the people who increasingly use it as a weapon against those too slovenly to put their pencils back on the spot marked X, at the end of the working day.
I wonder, given that many of the past & present senior managers of these cults seem to be making a living out of being Corporate Trainers, whether that is the reason this word is increasingly to be found on the lips of the most ghastly of jobsworths.
As for the wigs............will the ex Satguru ever get round to making jokes about his younger self in front of an audience of the faithful. If he ever does & they still laugh, then I think the only conclusion could be is that they deserve each other.
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Hi Pat, Rawat used the word "impeccable" a lot for a while�in the 70s.� Everything was or had to be impeccable -- I can still hear his tone of voice.� I have an aversion to the word for that reason.� I mock it by calling it the "impeccability imperative of Prem Rawat." 
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behind which he smuggly expected to be worshipped without question or critic.
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Apparently Rawat was the little teenage power operator at the time, and Dettmers said the marriage was about breaking the controls of his mother and getting control of the� mission in the West without her. I think power and money, and having a lavish lifestyle have always been the first, second the third priorities of Prem Rawat.� Interpersonal "love" isn't something a megalomaniac is very good at.� So, I doubt very much that he was "so in love" that he just HAD to get married at 16.� No, I think it was the opportune time to break with Mom, because she was already pissed that he was becomming too "western" and was a playboy drunk, which he sort of was. But he knew he had an army of young devotees in the West who would stick with him and reject Mom, and most of them did.
Modified by Joe at Wed, May 16, 2007, 14:23:09
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And how exactly does Dettmers know what was going on in the young Rawat's mind and emotions?
Your explanation requires a belief that young 16 year old Rawat planned ahead and carefully plotted a way to break with his mother. Rawat was a lazy selfish young boy who wanted everything now, as you say, was a playboy drunk at the time and his career is only explicable using the concept of him being a rash person making selfish off-the-cuff decisions without much forethought and it doesn't take into account the raging passions that young men can have for beautiful women.
"In love" is the perfect Ockham explanataion.
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And how exactly does Dettmers know what was going on in the young Rawat's mind and emotions? Well, you would have to ask Dettmers, but I think it was because Rawat told him so.
And that "explanation" does not require "careful planning and plotting."� It just required seeing an opportunity and taking it.� I don't think that's too hard to figure out.� Plus, there were plenty of political operatives around Rawat who would benefit from getting rid of Mata ji as well, and may have also encouraged him.� Plus, I imagine Marolyn was also into getting married.
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Rawat told him so? I don't think he said that in his posts. Now this is a question to which we can never know the real answer so I'll leave you with your favoured explanation and I'll stay with mine until such time as more compelling evidence arises.
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I wouldn't want you to feel that you have to give up your pet theory or anything.
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Theories are the only pets I have so I really appreciate your magnanimity in this but on the other hand, why isn't it your pet theory that you wouldn't want to feel you'd have to give up?
I guess one man's pet theory is another man's Theory of Special Relativity
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I agree Ocker, but I'd�say "in lust."� Little teenager Goomrodgie was more enthralled with his adolescent libido and having sex with a beautiful blonde who worshipped him, drinking, taking drugs, and obtaining all the big toys he wanted, including his Malibu beach house, than controlling anything.� Arrogant little pimply twerp. 
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Apparently Rawat was the little teenage power operator at the time, and Dettmers said the marriage was about breaking the controls of his mother and getting control of the� mission in the West without her. Apparently some the NRM scholars say that too.� The most disgusting thing I've heard yet is LP/Saph's story of how Rawat came to the Denver(?) ashram and snatched Marolyn out of there under the pretenses that he had a new committee he wanted her on.� The rest is history.� She must have been so naive.� Once she had the kids, she was stuck with him.�� I was just trying to find out if anyone reading here was around Rawat at the time of the supposed court proceeding when he was emanicpated.� I have no reason to doubt Cagan's account...scratch that!
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and thanks for reminding us of the snatching up Marolyn story. I truly believe Rawat is not capable of what most of us call love. Probably, the closest he can come to it is with his kids, but his kids are projections of himself, and it is a form of self love. With Marolyn, I think all the expediency things may be true, but I still think it is just easy to imagine a 16 year old boy, smitten with his first love/lust wanting to marry her, especially if she wanted that. There is just nothing I have ever heard about those first few years of Rawat and Marolyn that made me think he was anything but nuts for her. And, again, they did have a lot of babies, very quickly, and I think it was pretty obvious this was a source of pride and pleasure to him. Now, the other thing I find weird, if we are allowed to discuss this here.....is that the rumor was she was the first to cheat, with a driver. And that sort of makes sense to me in a way. Well, not that she was first, but that she might cheat. Because Rawat was cheating her just like he cheated all of us. By all accounts Marolyn was the ultimate Gopi and did NOT take the x rated stuff easy and wanted it to all be REAL. I think it might have been Donner who said she had a really hard time coping with the hypocrisy of the drinking and the difference between his on stage persona and off stage persona. Also, it sounds like he isn't just a drunk, but a mean drunk, and wives usually bear the brunt of that. So if you indulge my psychobabble, here she is, dealing with this shock, but also pregnant right away....and the pregnancy he loved, and there is no doubt he really loved the kids ( again...fascist dictators and mobsters love their kids too) so she is in an ultimate double bind. Also, at first, she was Durga Ji, and always, even when she was Marolyn again, she had a lot of perks few women ever get....massages, maids, jets, clothes, private tutors of her choosing....... But she still reportedly had an affair. First of all, wasnt she afraid? Secondly, maybe she was just sick of all the hypocrisy. It could be that lust overcame her with a more authentic, attractive man that she wasn't a foot taller than? There is some account of it here, and how it pained the guru. But even if he had been cheating, in his culture I think men routinely cheat. But the stories here all sound like his cheating started after hers. And though I don't agree with this, can't you just see him punishing her forever with it by not hiding Monica and the others very well. Because if you cheat on the Lord of the Universe.....
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I wonder about Marolyn's pregnancies and how he treated her during that time.� Rawat's an abusive drunk and he's�also narcissistic.��Those kinds of men treat the pregnant women in their lives very badly because the focus is shifted off of them.� Imagine the LOTU having to share some of the spotlight with his kids (to Marolyn and all the premies).� But, it's a�dichotomy because�another way abusive men control women is by having children with them. Those men are�actually jealous of the�child in the womb and the children who are born.� Lots of wife beaters escalate during their wive's pregnancies.� I wonder if the Rawats put on a very good front for us.� He wasn't treating Marolyn very nicely according to Mike Dettmers. This is all my speculation, of course.
Modified by Cynthia at Thu, May 17, 2007, 10:34:02
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You knew him up close and personal and I didn't. All I know is what I have read and the interactions we saw that were staged. But I'd be shocked, really very shocked if he was mean to her during the EARLY part of their marraige. I mean maybe even before Daya was born. It just wasn't the sense I had, but I don't know why I think I would know anything. I think the abyssmal treatment started later.....maybe even before the last baby was born.
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Again, it's a speculation.� I never saw anything at DECA to support it.� That's why it's speculation based only on the pattern of behavior�of narcissists, megalomaniacs, and wife abusers, who hide from anyone outside the home, their abusiveness towards their pregnant wives. It's not hard for me to imagine at all, given that he's been a drunk for so long (since adolescence) and has been reportedly so mean and abusive to premies around him.� Makes me wonder just why Marolyn would reach out to another man to have an affair with, since she supposedly (by her own words) has been married to someone who's so perfect, not just to premies, but especially to herself.� I used to cling to her every word when she spoke about him, and how incredibly perfect he was and how everyone should always listen to anything he says.
Modified by Cynthia at Fri, May 18, 2007, 08:21:28
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Boy would I have liked to have been a fly on the wall when #1 Dettmers explained to that famous therapist ( I forgot her name...shrink to the stars...) that she was treating the Lord of the Universe and his wife #2 A fly on the wall in the session. Frankly, I can't imagine it being very helpful. Successful therapy requires honesty, commitment, bravery, self examination, being willing to face painful realities. That doesn't exactly describe either one of them...but its the antithesis of Prem Rawat.
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I don't really know.� But I think he just got the permission of the minister who married them in a meeting sometime prior to the wedding with the happy couple, agreeing with�Joe that�there was no legal requirement to get�a judge to approve the marriage.� But I might be 100 percent wrong.�Malibu Prem was�quite impressive at 16 in a way, with a closet full of stylish for the day sports coats and wide silk ties, and longish hair, driving a�new silver Maserati.� I agree with Susan's take on smitten.� I recall having to�"coordinate" with them both while he was on tour in Kansas City and she�shadowed the tour�staying in hotels, while Prem and�his mother stayed in the ashram.� B O�R I N�G.� His attraction for this young beautiful blond stewardess with the California tan was, I agree, obvious.�
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As I was an ex-hippieish sort of doper-surfer Malibu Prem's wardrobe and obvious desire for materialistic excess and those bum-fluff moustaches were so embarassing and so unimpressive that I cannot now see how I even got on board in the first place.
And that terrible moment when I first viewed the Wedding video and Prem and Durga Ji went into the Busby Berkeley beach routine will remain with me forever.
But according to the press of the day there was a legal requirement as Prem was under 18 without parental consent in Colorado.
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And that terrible moment when I first viewed the Wedding video and Prem and Durga Ji went into the Busby Berkeley beach routine will remain with me forever. Bouncing boobies.� It was so effin embarrassing to watch the beach scene.� The ashram premies wanted to watch it multiple times.� yuck
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When this came out, in late 1975, one of the ashram premies I was living with --�Jim Colpas, a noted wacko taxicab driver and�dramatist,�who was made an initiator, but whose tenure was marred by "issues" -- absolutely freaked out at the bouncing images on�the screen and went on a rampage to have this film destroyed nationally and internationally and never shown again in any�ashram.� It was�way too over the top for Jim.� He then became an initiator anyway, much to the shock of us all who knew him and lived with him.� One night at dinner in the ashram (wooden table with wooden benches for all ashrams worldwide), he pulled a piece of windshield glass out of his forehead from a car accident which had happened 10 years earlier.� What a guy.
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One night at dinner in the ashram (wooden table with wooden benches for all ashrams worldwide), he pulled a piece of windshield glass out of his forehead from a car accident which had happened 10 years earlier.� What a guy. It was the grace, Ocker, it was grace.
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"Maharaji�s marriage to Marolyn was the decisive act that forced the split up of the so called �holy family� and cleared the way for Maharaji to take full control of his mission, and that was the main reason he got married. He did not get married to obtain US citizenship. He would have gotten that without marrying Marolyn because he already had US permanent residence status and was eligible for citizenship in 1979. His marriage to Marolyn simply accelerated the process by a couple of years."
Related link: http://ex-premie.org/best/bof12192000173449.htm
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That was a very interesting time. The cult almost twisted itself in knots and the heads of some of the most fanatical of Australian premies exploded when Dettmers came up with those details.� The Rawat cult would never be the same. It was soon after that, when the Rawat cult viciously came after Dettmers and other ex-premies for telling the truth about Rawat.� But those attacks were pretty lame, and died quick deaths. And Dettmers' revelations were important for many, many people to finally leave the cult.� It was the last straw for many.
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Here are two newspaper articles that explain the situation. The quote from the judge is very similar to one I remember from the marriage reverend who mentioned his very tidy income for a 16 year old.
New York Times
http://www.ex-premie.org/gallery/news/1974/nytimes220574.html
http://www.ex-premie.org/gallery/news/1974/46062303.html
and further details about Durga Ji
http://www.ex-premie.org/gallery/news/1974/51917149.html
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I would say 5'2. How tall was he?
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Modified by hilltop at Thu, May 17, 2007, 00:47:39
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because the next pages goes on ...
The ceremony was over, and Maharaj Ji and Marolyn began
walking back.
Maharaj Ji stopped and allowed Marolyn
and a few other premies to kiss His feet. Then Maharaj Ji and Marolyn
got into the Maserati with Dr. Pepper cans tied on the back with a "just
married" sign. Raja Ji followed in his car.
It was all so quick but so divine! We use that word so easily
to describe something far out, but this was really heavenly, it was purely
heavenly! Guru Maharaj Ji married us all through Marolyn. The marriage was made
in heaven so much that everyone there was brought to heaven! � Oh well, you'll
see it soon on video. Maharaj Ji stopped and allowed Marolyn
and a few other premies to kiss His feet. allowed!
http://www.prem-rawat-bio.org/durgaji/intheeyesofgod.html
True Confessions: I love the wedding songs
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