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Well Sheree, if you believe that then you've still got an awfully long way to go to get out of delusion. I ex-ed around 1980 but until recently I lived with premies and was married to one. Begging Rawat to make you feel better is one of the most common things that premies do because quite simply practising the meditation, doing voluntary labour for ELan Vital and it's now unrelated local organisations and watching and distributing the DVD's (but only to the people who are OK to see that one, no PWKS ONLY DVDS should ever be seen by aspirants or SHOCK! HORROR! New People or Guests).
Of course if you actually had the self-confidence and courage to beg him publicly at an Amaroo love-fest expression session and admit how you didn't feel good then you probably already had the self-confidence to leave and you certailny made the right choice. Good luck.
Actually practising Knowledge is such a useless method of feeling better that many premies use other methods as well such as prayer, creative visualisation, tranquillizers, alcohol and marijuana. Don't get me wrong, it's not as if "practising Knowledge" will make you feel worse necessarily, only if you're the sort of person who keeps worrying why "practising Knowledge" doesn't make you feel better.
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I was wondering whether what was said about maha on the other site is still considered true since in the (bio/latest propaganda) it appears someone took back what they said? What's the screening process entailed in getting to participate in this website? How or why do his family and people in the inner circle- I mean, what do they really think? The one's who travel and raise money - is it just a job? I can't imagine?????
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What's the screening process entailed in getting to participate in this website?Anyone who is willing to respect the few forum rules is able to post on this site. Every new person who registers is initially given the benefit of the doubt, and is allowed to post. This includes current premies, but our experience is that generally they are incapable of discussing the allegations against Rawat in the same way they might be able to discuss allegations against other public figures, and usually resort to verbal abuse or preaching. The simple registration process has pretty much eliminated the spammers who were frequent visitors to earlier forums. You posted a couple of posts twice (I've deleted the duplicates) - if you don't see your post immediately, try reloading the index page. John.
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Hi Sheree, I hope your new way of looking at the world does not feel too daunting. >it appears someone took back what they said?< I'm not sure what you are referring to - but we shouldn't be surprised if the views of Rawat expressed by former followers do change over time. So much of what went on in 'Rawat world' was hidden from view and there are many myths, some incidental, some deliberately promoted, which have only been dispelled by dilligent research by ex premies. The history that has unfolded and which is now told in various ways on a number websites (most linked from this forum) is I think accepted by most posters here as being pretty accurate. The early DLM in India, what happened when Hans died and the legal tussle between Prem and Satpal will always remain only partially exposed. Also Rawat's financial dealings, Amtext, Deltek etc and the role of his most wealthy followers is also likely to remain largely hidden. But much else has been exposed and even the cult machine has had to acknowledge that the initial source of Rawat's wealth was the mass donations from followers in the early 1970's. The Pat Halley attack, the Jagdeo affair and the death of the cyclist in India are still subjects the cult would like to kept off the public record, but these are well established incidents. The financial operation of the Rawat organisations are kept largely from public view, mostly because EV USA is registered as a church and does not have to declare it's accounts publicly. So new facts may come forward and our understanding of 'what went on' will change accordingly - but I don't see anyone who makes a realistic assessment of Rawat's career coming to any conclusion other than: Rawat is an abusive narcissist who has exploited human vulnerability in his quest for personal agrandisement. Nik
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Modified by lexy at Tue, May 15, 2007, 02:34:13
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Yes, actually, that is what I was referring to. Shereelove
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Hi Shereelove, some time ago now I suggested that the whole of the John MacGregor story as far as is known ,should be available to read on EPO.....as,when I last looked only a part of it was there. Suffice it to say that previous to the "apology" John had been pursued and dragged through the Australian courts by the cult. I believe however that John's (IMO) cringeworthy, OTT "apology" is somewhere in the forum archives, along with the ensuing comments of forum contributors. I don't feel informed enough to elaborate but I know what my own general opinion is. Ocker,Nik ,Jim and JHB know more than I and if you have questions you can email them via the site owner JHB or Mike Finch. As far as I know, despite JM ( a respected independent journalist) feeling (IMO) cornered into "apologising"........he has never denounced his own published article about the cult entitled "Blinded by the Light".(click on links which are very informative , especially Nik's fairly definitive post on the second link) http://ex-premie.org/pages/goodweekend0208.htm http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/posts/5504.html http://ex-premie.org/pages/rsf17032004.htm
Modified by lexy at Tue, May 15, 2007, 18:37:41
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Rawat can't help anybody, but he is perfectly willing to string somebody along forever: "Maybe your journey is not from point A to point B, but maybe your journey is out of the box. And maybe for some, it will take a lifetime. And if it takes a lifetime, then a lifetime has been given. You have it. That moment, that opportunity, to make that passage out of the box into a freedom that cannot be expressed in words. To be free. To be free in that simplicity. To be free in the rhythm of life. To be free in that place where breath matters." -Rawat's latest bit of advice on another website. -- Rawat's idealism could actually drive some people nuts. In sharp contrast to his teaching, it is important to accept life's actuality along with its limitations. To pursue a perfect state of freedom such as recommended ever so vaguely by Mr. Rawat is a bad mistake. This mistake gets worse the longer you stay with it. New-Ex, were you around in 1972? Did you really last from then until now? The disillusionment with Rawat and his teaching can be painful, but it can also be freeing. Ironic,isn't it! Freedom from searching for perfect freedom! Freedom from his version of truth. Freedom from him. Pass through the threshold of YOUR OWN happiness, your own way!
Modified by Will at Fri, May 11, 2007, 16:49:33
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Shereelove 'Whatever was there all along is with me still.' Indeed! and 'Ex' is what any truly sincere premie must become 'Who would have believed that I could have been so deluded (probably everyone who knew me)? Yes ...After 33 years I also somewhat ruefully reflected just the same. Strange isn't it? But so refreshing to get out from under the smog. good luck and all the best to you Tim (a fellow traveller in Rawat's school of long term delusion)
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Tim, I'm not sure I know how to use this...... Thanks for your quick response and the encouragement, it does help, you know. The layers, why, I can only begin to comprehend how many.... How is it, do you think? that those on the inner circle remain despite what they know about him personally? or is that stuff really just made up? (you will remember all the questions you had in the beginning of the end....!) shereelove
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Shereelove I really don't know the answer to your last question ...can only suppose that one can get into a state of suspending all disbelief? I don't know any of those inner folk at all. However I do believe that the bulk of the stories are true. They are self-consistent and, given the litigious nature of EV it seems unlikely that they would not, by now, have faced some sort of legal challenge. On a more intuitive level I would say that they also rang true...i.e.. certainly ..near the end.. I began to experience a real dissonance ... squirmed in expressions events, tried to ignore all the tac on sale at events and Rawat sounded ever more opinionated ...and just plain dull. .....but just my mind of course. It was the dissonance that caused me to finally double click on EPO ...and then how fast the penny dropped! ...ex-premie within an hour. I must say though that it left me with no negative feelings about the premies themselves other than a gentle concern that they too get the chance to snap out of it. The one thing that really annoyed me was the fact that, in retrospect, I could see that there had been no honest communication or discussion amongst the premies about things that matter ....I had never read EPO ...but others had.....all that secrecy...no open discussion ?! anyway ..it is great to join the real world ..plus your friends will have a good laugh at your " I was in a cult and I even.." stories ..(even if it can be a bit at your own expense)...much easier to share (and more honest) than trying to sneak a DVD into their hand! best Tim
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That's amazing! After 25 years I'm still to embarassed to say more than "I was in a religious/spiritual/meditation cult in the 1970's" and hope they won't want to know which cult in which case I usually stammer a bit, stumble over my tongue and hope the topic changes, ..., quickly.
On the other hand I sometimes hear "Yeah Tom, my brother/father, was in a cult and he even ... "
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I have given up opening my big mouth and confessing to it. The few times I did ( rather gung-ho in the interest of openess and being unashamed of my past) were excruciating.....stunned silence,incomprehension and the very worst of all was the PITY. Omigod . Unfortunately ,only those who have succumbed to this strange ,contorted mind-set can really understand what it's about. It's far safer to tell people you were a druggie, an anorexic or an alcoholic than - horror of horrors - ....stupid enough to be duped by a cult. It's rather annoying 'cos I spent all those years embarrassed to admit I had a "Master" and covering up my cult activities, and now I've exed it's just as squirmingly difficult to mention.
Modified by lexy at Sun, May 13, 2007, 14:06:38
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And it wasn't even as if hanging out with other people who meditated or practised Raja Yoga or followed some spiritual discipline you were accepted as part of the "cool people". Followers of the Guru Maharaj Ji were always uncool because he was so obviously hopeless as a guru, so embarassing with his car and superman comic satsangs and because they all knew that "premies" believed they were following the only real Satguru and having the only real "experience"!
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they all knew that "premies" believed they were following the only real Satguru and having the only real "experience"! ....and we thought they were lost and wondered how they could be so blind.Yes,there we all were , different and alone and oh so detached; watching from the sidelines as life passed by. Sad but true 
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The response that bothered me the most...I can kind of see that Susan...( she said she could have imagined me on a commune...I threatened to show her my hairy armpits) Susan....who always shaved her armpits and thinks I will join Lexy in not divulging this tidbit about me..... Yes, and if you were in a cult ours was one of the stupidest. Someone once called it the bubblegum music equivalent of cults. Well...still better than being a Krishna or Scientologist or People's temple.......?
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Welcome to the forum. Thank you for posting to everyone. I have a few questions if you feel comfortable answering them. Could you tell us when you received knowledge? Sounds like in the olden days - like me. For me, it was November, 1972. Are you in the US? Did I understand your post to say that you asked a question of Rawat at an expressions event? What did he say? If I am wrong, please tell us what affected you at the expressions event and why. It takes a great deal of courage to make that first post. Here's a hug. I hope you feel comfortable telling us more. Marianne, San Francisco
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I left in 1983, so it's been a long time, but I can still recall the feelings when I finally had had it and walked away. The feeling of betrayal and "how could I have believed that' are pretty strong, but things get so much better, so quickly. The nice part is, there wasn't any EPO when I left, and now, there are a lot of people with whom you can talk through all this. This is a very supportive group and most understand what you are going through. All I can really say, though is congratulations, because you are getting your life back, and I know it took some courage to see that the emperor really has no clothes. All the best, Joe
Modified by Joe at Fri, May 11, 2007, 22:27:30
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I understand you're a victim of the naked king syndrome.
I very clearly remember my last video events, and the last time I went to see him: the magic was gone, he was just a simple little man on a stage, saying inane things.
Then I tried to stay for a while with all these people I know, and they were all looking so strange and lost.
What a strange feeling. And I left for the real world .......... a bit difficult in the beginning. I got a lot of help from other exes (sharing on our past experience is extremely helpful), and decided to go back to who I really am - for good.
Like meeting a friend you haven't seen for decades.
It takes some time, and things settle down.
My advice: be careful with your past premie friends.
Modified by Jean-Michel at Sat, May 12, 2007, 02:53:59
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Come on, now. You owe us ....
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I'll come for sure ........
I'm going to be on an endless vacation one day anyway.
I haven't decided the date yet !!
I think I'll be a nomad then, and enjoy more of this planet.
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I think I got an email from you a little while back - thank you for your appreciation of my journey, it made my day.
It takes a little courage to keep it up there but as I recall not half as much as it takes to make your first post here. 
Scary as it was I really enjoyed the instant personal impact of publicly saying I wasn't a premie anymore and why. By the time I'd warmed up to disclosing the techniques online it was pure fun!
And I remember thinking I knew about the houses and the cars and the planes, how come I didn't know about the yacht?
As far as I can see it most if not all of the people who promise to keep his secrets and get x-rating, ie those who get to serve Rawat up close and personal, in some form or another spend their time being wooed, dazzled, leaned on and then cast into outer siberia in a routine fashion. I think they're so busy dealing with this they don't even notice how crumbled broken and hypocritical they've become.
Or how terrified they are to admit to themselves let alone speak aloud the inconsistencies between believing Rawat to be the fount of love in their lives and the way he actually treats them.
Plus I would imagine they spend very little time with people who are quite happy to think to their hearts content.
I felt like I was in a fog at first, though within the week I was having great fun thinking about stuff and haven't felt foggy since.
Considering one of Rawats main commandments is abandon all thought all ye who enter into my Kingdom of Heaven (unless you're doing service in which case a pox on you for not thinking very very carefully about what you are doing)...
it's not that surprising that people who are serving him up close and personal end up in such an unreliable state.
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Hi Shereelove, Welcome. It's a big step to move away from Rawat. You said: Who would have believed that I could have been so deluded (probably everyone who knew me)? In my experience, I was the only premie who begged for maha to help me to feel better, that it was hard for me, at an expressions event, because I believed that he could (after all, he did say he could back in 1972. He said that I stood at the threshold of my own happiness. Whatever... That's how Maharaji sets up people to fail. He told us premies that he would give us all the love and peace that our hearts desired, that he would fill us up with peace, love, and himself, which he has called everything. He told us that even in our darkest hour he would not abandon us. He made some fantastic claims and convinced us to believe him because he had such a practical solution: Knowledge. Yet, when faced with a premie begging, asking, pleading for help, he makes a flippant remark that's meaningless bullshit, like "You're on the threshold of your own happiness." After 35 years of your dedication, that's all he's got to offer you? That would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic and downright mean. I've discovered that the only real things about Maharaji are: 1. He loves to be wealthy off the backs of his followers and doesn't hesitate to take, take, take money out of the pockets of premies. 2. He loves to be adored, but knows nothing about the intimacy and dedication of friendships, and he demands total dedication to him. He even lacks basic social skills. 3. He is terrified of being exposed for the real fraud he is. You're in a delicate spot right now as a new ex-premie. Feel free to tell us more about yourself if you're comfortable doing that. There are very few rules here about posting. One is that we don't discuss politics and religion!  Here's a helpful website called reFocus that I've found very helpful for myself and especially for recent ex-premies. You may find yourself experiencing feelings you don't expect. This helps to explain. Be well, Cynthia, Vermont
Related link: reFocus
Modified by Cynthia at Sat, May 12, 2007, 08:29:42
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Welcome and best of luck. You're doing the right thing by having faced your doubts head on and seeing the real light of this terrible cult business which bound us for decades. Thanks for posting. It's hard to hit that SEND button the first time. I received Knowledge from Fakiranand in Feb. 1972, lived in the ashcans(rams) and last went to Amaroo in the spring of 2001. Spent millions travelling the world to hear him repeat his rap and drink cognac together (how about that bar at Daya's Restaurant in the Bush? -- awsome). I believed in service. A month later I went to hear Maharji speak for the very last time in the dank dark Miami Beach Convention Center covered in cement and blue drapes. The highlight of that weekend was the playing of the Atlanta Propagation meeting video -- just abusive and shocking. Frustated that I saw no progress for 15 years prior, I was done. So are you now. Good. I cried a quick hard cry and moved on. The hurting anger lasted about five years for me. Now my anger is quite manageable. I will not forget and might not forigve. Like you, everyone who knew me knew I was crazy with this guru shit. 30 years? Gee whiz. Having no other friends by then except premies, after years of alienating everyone else, I today have many less friends. But love the ones I got -- a few still premies. So what. I can't and don't say a thing now. Good on ya for getting on with it. It just took me so much time to get my full confidence back, it seemed. I was so down on myself for having fallen for all of it for so long. Each of us deals with this so differently but similarly. Best of luck to you. I spoke on Malibu Prem's behalf throught America, and on his behalf showed people the techniques of knowledge, which didn't work for me or them I suspect. bunch of crap, to me. Dangerous. I was a trusted devotee for years and years and years. I believed in devotion, bhatki yoga, and I trusted him and his organzation, though it started to smell like old fish 20 years ago. Welcome. Tell us more.
Modified by OTS at Sat, May 12, 2007, 10:17:54
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