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Hi Lp, Great Picture of our Planet Earth! But let's get rid of that concept maker!
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(Thanks Cynthia for posting this truth) soon time ago.
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Modified by Nomorefootkissing at Mon, Mar 26, 2007, 02:32:01
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These have me lost for words, but may I compare them line by line?
Before k (aspirant)
'Oh my Guru Maharaji, I dedicate myself to Your Lotus Leet. I am weak
and ignorant and am filled with the impurities of this world.
After k (Maharaji)
Congratulations you have just received knowledge and I hope you have understood it too.
Oh Guru Maharaji, please take my mind and purge me of the impurities I possess. Reveal to me the Knowledge of all knowledge.
You know this knowledge is like food. It can just be there and will be of no use unless eaten; it will be of benefit to no one. It's only going to be worthwhile if you eat it. Only then can you enjoy it.
Strengthen me, uplift me and reveal the Kingdom of Heaven within inside of me. Since now you have received knowledge it is your duty to do meditation, service, and satsang, and understand this knowledge through these means.
Bring me from hate to love, from darkness to light, death to immortality.
Let me also remind you and caution you about something and that is your mind. This mind is really going to be freaked out because knowledge is its antidote.
I will OBEY You implicitly and will never reveal this Knowledge to anyone for any reason.
And therefore in the future this mind might really begin to bother you.
I will keep in contact with You through my DEVOTIONAL LOVE, satsang, meditation and service.
But do not be bothered, just keep on truckin', just keep on going. Believe it, it will certainly go away.
Thank you my LORD for everything.'
Further, keep in touch. Love is everlasting. Happy meditation and service. GM
Modified by Lp at Mon, Mar 26, 2007, 13:11:11
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Wonderful, in fact. Thanks.
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Hi Lp, Wow, amazing how those quotes go together. How perceptive of you. Great job once again! You have a keen eye for this stuff. Plus you made me laugh with what you called your topic. Thanks Lp... Sincerely, NMFK
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Was this Knowledge vow required by aspirants in Knowledge sessions? The reason I ask is because somone on wikipedia is saying that they are from Australia and this vow was never used in K sessions in Oz, which I find difficult to believe, because Padarthanand spent a lot of time there, and he was my K session mahatma and I took this vow in early 1976. This question is in the interest of finding out the real truth, small "t" and answers won't be quoted anywhere else but here on the forum. Thanks. 'Oh my Guru Maharaji, I dedicate myself to Your Lotus Leet. I am weak and ignorant and am filled with the impurities of this world.
Oh Guru Maharaji, please take my mind and purge me of the impurities I possess. Reveal to me the Knowledge of all knowledge.
Strengthen me, uplift me and reveal the Kingdom of Heaven within inside of me.
Bring me from hate to love, from darkness to light, death to immortality.
I will OBEY You implicitly and will never reveal this Knowledge to anyone for any reason.
I will keep in contact with You through my DEVOTIONAL LOVE, satsang, meditation and service.
Thank you my LORD for everything.'
Modified by Cynthia at Mon, Mar 26, 2007, 13:01:57
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Dunno, Cynthia. Maybe Ocker does. Or maybe one of the hundreds of other australian ex premies around the place might decide to answer, ya never know!
My session was in London. And somehow I managed to miss the dedication bit - not to worry, the mahatma noticed and scared me silly anyway.
I do remember noticing that there were a few changes along the way in the vow, it was rewritten wasn't it to a promise to stay in touch?
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Hi lesley I also 'took' knowledge in London, perchance do we know each other? 1974 PoP? I seem to recall that a vow was the order of the day, and what a day it was. (khrishnasuchanand - sheesh can't remember how he spelt his mahatma name). I probably still have the vow buried beneath the detritus of life here at home somewhere. Maybe I will dig it up sometime, tis a piece of paper of some sort. I remember it being handed to me on the day and reading it and thinking 'oh well, part of the process I guess'. What a process that proved to be. Anyway, we have met, at another time, another place. Mutual friends etc. Hope you are keeping well? You seem to be - keeping well that is. xo
T
Modified by T at Mon, Mar 26, 2007, 15:12:02
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Hi T,
1973, Adharanand. Do you remember Vaisaki at the pop? It was one Easter and went on for 2 or 3 days being told the big M was about to arrive if we loved him enough to pull him there.
We was cramped in, knees to backs hour after hour listening to sutsung. Found out later Rawat was in Malibu at the time!!!...even I knew that was stupid way back then.
This is a little mysterious  yes I am keeping well, perhaps you could email me, lesley (at) mullum.com.au
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Howdy T  I also got Kayed in 1974 and we had to make dedication vows in front rawat's picture(he was wearing THAT crown) 3 times in full prostration.
We were told that rawat is god and there was no turning back. In fact we were told that before the session and anyone unsure was told to leave. I am not sure how anyone could be 'sure' as knowledge was meant to be the proof. Remember 'experience first and then believe' Anyway, the mahatma(gitananad) was later(75) shunned by rawat for committing the sin of falling in love with a human. I saw him some time later and he ran away when he realised I recognised him under that brand new moustache and a full head of hair. I hope he got over the fear and is living a full life. All the best, Jethro
Modified by Jethro at Tue, Mar 27, 2007, 04:16:47
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I do remember noticing that there were a few changes along the way in the vow, it was rewritten wasn't it to a promise to stay in touch? It's nearly impossible to track any of the changes because of all the secrecy of the cult, so I don't know when the vow was changed to "give knowlege a fair chance; keep in Touch, and not to reveal the techniques to anyone." These are listed as such on the Keys website.
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I think there's a degree of sophistry going on here.........surprise surprise, & I'm pretty sure it has to do with time rather than place.
I remember oathing something or other in London in 1972, but it certainly wasn't as long winded as that, though what the exact words were, are now long forgotten.
So whilst it's quite possible, depending on when the wikishithead got sucked into the trip, that he/she didn't actually swear that specific vow, it's entirely disingenuous to claim that it wasn't the norm at other times & everywhere.
I vaguely recall reading that version at a much later date, shown me by a recently initiated premie, who wasn't supposed to 'talk', & being 'humbled' to think how high the bar to entry into the Kingdom had been raised since my day.........puke.
The idea that Australia has always been some kind of premie milk & honey land, is one which no doubt suits the present administration at cult central, for whatever reason they decide these things.
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"The idea that Australia has always been some kind of premie milk & honey land"
I don't understand what you mean. That the present admin says Australian premies have always been very devoted, or that ?? well whatever?
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No-one 'says' anything, but the present premie outlook is that those 12/13 yrs at the beginning were an aberration during which the essential simplicity of the message got lost for reasons they don't want to truthfully examine. The wheat got separated from the chaff by mysterious divine means since, & now we have the true believers remaining with the essential Rawat, even though he does come across as a much less than the perfect man.
Divine deception or something, I don't know. The psychology of this is pathological.
I just think that with Amaroo being the venue of choice for the international spiritual lotus eaters who can afford to go there, it helps in the present rationalisation stakes, if it can be graced by such a word, to put it about that Australian premies were always ahead of the game in the understanding of what this has always really been all about.
Something like that. I think it's called spin.
Like I say though, I have no input, thank God, into the party line, & was just speculating.
For a clued up guy, you can be remarkably obtuse at times.
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Thanks heavens it only last 12/13 years. Can you imagine how long that aberration might have lasted if Prem Rawat hadn't come with more power than ever this time?
You explain that so well, you've got a gift, maybe they can use you in Dunspin.
I certainly don't deny the obtuse at times but in this case it seemed that the "land of milk and honey" could metaphor in so many possible directions that I was stumped. Plus I was there for some of those aberrant years and the essential simplicity had just as many baroque overlays here as elsewhere though there were a few premies devoid of that unessential element of sat. Mybe there still are.
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Forgive me the 'obtuse' remark.
That was me being thoughtless; a condition I strove so hard to attain in respect of the imaginary relationship with Prem Rawat that it's difficult to eradicate now.
Another of those is the expectation that what one says should be immediately obvious to anyone listening, no matter how cryptic the allusion.
On the other hand, on the spin front, Rawat (pbuh) doesn't know just how lucky he is as far as his critics are concerned. If we really were motivated by hatred, malice & all the rest of it, it doesn't take a Machiavelli to work out how to fuck him up bigtime.
Or maybe it does.
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because I have no idea how to fhubt (fhubuh).
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Gee, I though the U.S. was the land of milk and honey. Funny, how it took Rawat almost 40 years to get the K initiation ceremony consistent around the world. Makes me wonder what he talked about during all those gruelling IDP (Initiator Development Program) sessions in the 70s when he was frying out their minds. I received a "Knowledge Packet" that was distributed from DLM in Denver (early 1976), that included the letter from GMJ, the Five Commandments, a copy of the vow, a photo of himself, etc.
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I don't remember the exact words but certainly there was a vow but the word 'aspirant' was not used in January or February 1974. 'Oh
my Guru Maharaji, I dedicate myself to Your Lotus Leet. I am weak and
ignorant and am filled with the impurities of this world.
That was surely part of it but 1976 was a different kettle of fish completely. Was Padarthanand even still in Australia in 1976, I don't think he was as your "Knowledge session" proves. That was the year of the "great space-out" as we later called it. In 1976 there were initiators and not many of them. People sometimes waited a very long time to be initiated around then. But never used, that is certainly lies or sophistry, maybe it's like Clinton saying he never had sex with that woman. Maybe there is a missing apostrophe. Who is this person?
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Well, I know that Padarthanand couldn't be in two places at one time. My point in asking the question was to discover when the vow was used and possibly to figure out when it stopped being used. Aspirant was used in 1975 when I was an aspirant in the U.S.
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'Aspirant' is the sort of word that sounds like it came out of that 1975/76 time.
The whole 'normalisation' period of DLM prior to and including the first closing of the ashrams and the bizarre attempt to position Rawat as a 'humanitarian leader' is something most of us lived through understanding and being puzzled, delighted or unhappy about it to a greater or lesser extent.
I'm just looking into that at the moment reading what Dettmers said about it (more than 20 years later of course) and what Sophia Collier wrote and what Bob Mishler said and the newspaper articles that Joe Anctil had to try and spin. I recall a ridiculous award Rawat was given by some Rabbi (Korff??)'s pro-Nixon lobby group. Mishler's attempt to sell the Malibu mansion was brave and the end of him but really this is all so unbelievable that it beggars belief.
Imagine if the gospels had a section about Peter and James and the other close disciples trying to keep Jesus from wasting all the donations on buying an opulent villa in Ceasarea and marrying Mary Magdalene and buying the best and fastest galley money could buy and using the early Christians as slaves to row it around the Mediterranean cause that's the best method of propagation and Jesus is sick of having to walk.
Didn't I answer the question? If not: Something very like it was used in early 1974 in the so-called K session.
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The whole 'normalisation' period of DLM prior to and including the first closing of the ashrams and the bizarre attempt to position Rawat as a 'humanitarian leader' is something most of us lived through understanding and being puzzled, delighted or unhappy about it to a greater or lesser extent. It certainly was a strange period of time. The 1976 normalization period in the U.S. consisted of what was termed by Rawat and premies as "spacing out," or "the big space-out of 1976," meaning people had left ashrams, had relationships, got married, had kids, entered college, paid attention to their jobs, carreers, etc. Actual normal things! I don't remember any premies abandoning their belief in Rawat's divinity, if they had previously thought of him as the LOTU previous to 1976. It became a wink-wink sort of thing. Among premies, his divinity was still going strong, albeit with relaxed life-style that was soon to change to much stricter requirements of premies. All of this originated out of Denver and was explained as a way to propagate K in a more mainstream way to the public. The 1976 "evolution" was very short-lived. Ashrams were reinvigorated during 1977 and guilt over having had relationships and family began anew with Rawat telling (yelling) that people needed only him ("no secondary love" ). However, introductory programs never mentioned Rawat as the lord anymore post-1976, and aspirants were "brought along" according to their own "understanding" and personal progress, even though that long vow was a requirement to receive K, as well as a clear acceptance of Maharaji as an aspirant's Lord. Indeed, the premies geared their satsangs each evening to whom was in the audience. One newcomer automatically changed the evening satsang into an inpromptu intro program. No question about that. Aspirant programs were quite specific about that when it was deemed someone was ready to be part of a K selection, which were very heavy, even in January of 1976, as mine was. There were lists of all aspirants containing information about how often they went to satsang, if they contributed money, did service. Aspirant coordinators conferred with the Mahatmas/Initiators about the readiness of every aspirant. Padarthanand was extremely intense and scary in our selection and K session.
Modified by Cynthia at Tue, Mar 27, 2007, 05:44:31
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1976 was basically the same over here. I remember my first wife and I found out about it by arriving at satsang one Saturday night (we had a 2 hour drive to get there) to find it wasn't on and the ashram was empty. Months later a premie arrived out in the valley where we lived to tell us satsang was on again and to explain there had been a space-out. Luckily we'd been surrounded by "satsangis" (followers of Radhasoami's Charan Singh) so we hadn't become worldly 
Post 1976 it is also similar over here except it was not that regimented or organised though it did get more organised as time went on but a lot of Aussies have a humorous disrespect for authority and the people in charge over here weren't always necessarily people who were respected.
Padarthand scary, that is funny. He was a lamb over here, at least he was in our "K session" and whenever I saw him. His shtick, if it wasn't real, was all sweetness and humbleness. I've got a tape of one of his satsangs which I intend to put on the net one day. But he sure didn't have the Rawat feather touch. He went at my eyes like he was trying to gouge them out. So two years later when he did you, did he still squeeze like he was trying to gets drops of light out of your stony eyes? If I go blind, I'm planning on suing for irretrievable damage to my eyes.
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, followers are, in fact, succeeding. But ' with his true nature.
