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- Thanks for your post, Will. I think of Bertrand Russel's conquest of happiness:
To CONQUER HAPPINESS 1. Cultivate zest Get into the habit of taking a lively and friendly interest in everything 2. Be affectionate Reach out to other people and give affection; accept, but never demand it, in return. 3. Be a good parent Give your child time & user your parental your child’s good 4. Do interesting, varied and constructive work Find work that is varied, builds on a skill and creates something. 5. Cultivate plenty of relaxing minor interests Enjoy as many diversifying hobbies and pursuits as you can; make sure these provide variety from your day job. 6. Find the right balance between effort and resignation Do your best and when you have done all you can leave the issue to fate. at the time the guru's recipe had much stronger appeal to me, but turned out to be a complete "cul de sac".
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Great! Thanks, Snow White. I still need to learn the lessons of how to live in this world. I am chagrined to read that Rawat is still talking about illusion and maya in reference to common human life. I am disappointed that he still holds to the philosophy that everything we want is "within us". He still goes around giving people advice, so I wish he would be much more wise and balanced in the advice that he gives. Granted it's not as bad as during the ashram days, but he still has far to go to really qualify as a "humanitarian," or balanced. I think that people who suffer from depression and/or anxiety problems would be especially advised not to rely solely on meditation and guru-dependence. Anxiety is too much negative emotion, and depression is too little positive emotion. A balanced meditation practice can be helpful for both conditions but so much of our emotional life is involved with the world and other people, so over-reliance on constantly seeking some "higher" inner connection can actually be frustrating and harmful - especially to a person suffering from depression.
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Anxiety is too much negative emotion, and depression is too little positive emotion. That's really too simplistic a description and not accurate. I wish it were so simple. Depression, as described by the National Institue of Mental Health (NIMH) is generally: WHAT IS A DEPRESSIVE DISORDER?A depressive disorder is an illness that involves the body, mood, and thoughts. It affects the way a person eats and sleeps, the way one feels about oneself, and the way one thinks about things. A depressive disorder is not the same as a passing blue mood. It is not a sign of personal weakness or a condition that can be willed or wished away. People with a depressive illness cannot merely "pull themselves together" and get better. Without treatment, symptoms can last for weeks, months, or years. Appropriate treatment, however, can help most people who suffer from depression. More here: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/depression.cfm#intro Anxiety is a person's normal reaction to stress. Anxiety is not the result of too much negative emotion. When someone experiences chronic anxiety that interferes with normal functioning, it may be anxiety disorder. Here's an introduction from NIMH about anxiety. Introduction (anxiety)Anxiety Disorders affect about 40 million American adults age 18 years and older (about 18%) in a given year,1causing them to be filled with fearfulness and uncertainty. Unlike the relatively mild, brief anxiety caused by a stressful event (such as speaking in public or a first date), anxiety disorders last at least 6 months and can get worse if they are not treated. Anxiety disorders commonly occur along with other mental or physical illnesses, including alcohol or substance abuse, which may mask anxiety symptoms or make them worse. In some cases, these other illnesses need to be treated before a person will respond to treatment for the anxiety disorder. Effective therapies for anxiety disorders are available, and research is uncovering new treatments that can help most people with anxiety disorders lead productive, fulfilling lives. If you think you have an anxiety disorder, you should seek information and treatment right away. http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/anxiety.cfm#anx1 If someone is experiencing depression and/or anxiety, no amount of guru-dependence or meditation will cure it -- in fact, I found that following Rawat made my conditions (depression and anxiety) much, much worse because the false feeling of being high masked the underlying causes. In addition, the emphasis by Rawat that how a premie feels is commensurate with how well they are practicing Knowledge is the biggest trap for someone who is depressed. This caused years-long delay of proper medical and therapeutic treatment. Of course, your talking about balances, but considering how widespread anxiety and depressive disorders are in the world today, I'd say no amount of balance of guru-dependence or meditation can ever be prescribed. I'd say they need professional medical assistance to be assessed and/or treated. Prem Rawat preys upon people who are feeling vulnerable and uses their feelings of sadness, hopelessness, lack of fulfillment to promise them "inner peace." He offers his "path" as a panacea to everything in life and still continues to promote himself as THE healer with the answer. He may not talk about surrender and devotion to his lotus feet anymore, but his message is as dangerous to anyone's mental health as it ever was. Following Prem Rawat is dangerous to good mental health. IMO. Hope you're well, Will,  Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Fri, Mar 09, 2007, 11:32:07
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Here is a current premie expression on the main premie website. This premie is following the inward, self-reliant philosophy that Rawat advises: I feel so blessed everyday for the clarity in my life. When I am with friends, and hear their thirst for romantic love, my heart goes out to them, my heart will never be fullfilled in this manner. I have been given the greatest gift in this lifetime, the opportunity to fulfill my own heart. This is precious to me, beyond everything else I could desire. I thank Maharaji, for this joy I experience. Thank you, so much.
Diane Petine on The Greatest
Modified by Will at Fri, Mar 09, 2007, 09:54:36
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As I see it, this inner outer thing has not really been sorted by anyone anywhere yet. The split still hangs in the air the world over. Trouble is this atmosphere of real uncertainty is conveniently available for any enthusiast to foist some half-truth onto his fellow man, assured by his/her own wilful onesidedness that s/he is offering the whole story. The best claim I know for universality so far, imo, is what you might call "materialistic science". It's hard headed, "outer world" stuff for sure, but it is consistent (largely) and earns its claims to universal certainty.Bluffing and doubting are provided for. But also I think its early days yet. I imagine "inner" could make a late dash from the rear once religious windbags like Prem and his Knowledge have been shaken off. As I said below, I think that the deliberate measured suppression in later life of a wild religious fancy in early years, is a perfectly excellent life-pattern. What has worked for me as an individual could perhaps be the case for the world at large? Claims for clarification on an "inner/outer" dilemma deriving from neuroscience alone, seem doomed to circularity to me. Ta for the chance to wax cosmic. Come on premies! Take the next step.Dump him. Love Bryn
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It could be argued that what premies call love is not much different from the much despised romantic version, only that the object of it is an idealised figment of the imagination rather than a real person.
Real love is an act of will which must be nurtured on a daily basis.............well, I don't want to be too dogmatic about it............maybe weekly, or even monthly would do. 
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True. Perfectly unreal love. What a waste. I remember (years ago) Rawat disparaging marriage with a warning that the doe eyed young creature would all too soon turn into a harridan in curlers. Not really the point was it? What on earth did he ever have to teach us about love?...Here is a better teacher.. W B Yeats When you are old and grey and full of sleep, And nodding by the fire, take down this book, And slowly read, and dream of the soft look Your eyes had once, and of their shadows deep; How many loved your moments of glad grace, And loved your beauty with love false or true, But one man loved the pilgrim soul in you, And loved the sorrows of your changing face; And bending down beside the glowing bars, Murmur, a little sadly, how Love fled And paced upon the mountains overhead And hid his face amid a crowd of stars.
best
Tim
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What on earth did he ever have to teach us about love?.
Absolutely nothing at all, would have to be the honest answer, despite the occasional high times & misdemeanours of days long gone in the following of the Pied Piper.
Thanks for the poem; it never fails to amaze me how these long dead old lushes with complicated private lives & dodgy politics, can speak to the human condition a thousand times more effectively than the still living Born Lord of Yogis, Satguru, Perfect Master, etc etc,etc. lol.
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Yes, well okay. More and more I am struck by how profound an effect emotion has on thoughts.
So here Diane starts by saying a phrase which includes blessed and clarity and finishes off with my life yet it's like hitting the snooze button - a meaningless phrase that is uttered like clearing the throat, a little self assurance.
And what the rest boils down to (the last bit gets my attention wandering again..) is when I see my friends aching over love I think jeez I'm glad I don't have to go there.
Wonderful, very nice for her friends I don't think
The other thing I am increasingly struck by is how messy living is, really really. Apart from the odd exception, mainly getting born and dying are messy arbitrary and generally inconvenient affairs not to mention all the living going on imbetween...well, from an orderly perspective that is.
And generally speaking we do like a little order in our lives.
Okay I confess I too have thought with relief I'm glad that's not me, glad things are ticking along nicely for me and I'm not feeling so turbulent, at the sight of someone in love.
So I must also confess to being touched by the sight too.
Though at the time, 30 odd years ago, I appreciated the logic of one perfect person who could simultaneously fulfil the quest for love in everybody as being a very orderly and failsafe system.
I have also had to conclude that it is a logic that founders in that messy reality I mentioned up above.
The determination I made, which took all of about three minutes, on leaving that cold and sterile 'world of Rawat' was not that I wanted to be an artist - that smelt too coldly of obsession - but that I wanted to approach living in an artistic way.
So far so good. Not only didn't the sky fall but I like looking at it just as much as ever.
It strikes me that a process of determination not only has to allow itself to take shape in that messy reality, it has to allow for the influence that logic of emotion brings, seems only reasonable to me from what I've experienced so far of living as a human being, member of the primate family, on earth, somewhere in the milky way I believe.
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Poor old Prem - even poorer, even older premies ! - stuck with ideas about conciousness that have more to do with the 19th rather than the 21st Century. Still all that 'inner' stuff makes for a nice security blanket - the premies are unlikely to give up their adopted autism even when presented with an unassailable argument that there is no inside, nor even an outside - there is just 'is'. Those interested in the lastest thinking on 'is' may be interested in http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=C7265AEC-E7F2-99DF-3B3A60DE6200D457
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Yay!!! Lets hear it for "soul" as a word to bring back. Only this time without the mumbo jumbo. Ta for the link. Love Bryn
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