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It didn't surprise me to discover that Radford is from Australia. The premies from Australia tend to have a particular viscious streak. Ho-hum...
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Doesn't surprise me either - the material denouncing us as a 'hate cult' is from an Australian premie web site - Lawrence seems less extreme most of the time - just gushes about limitless love for several paragraphs - is he Australian too? I wonder how united they are on this and why so few Premies seem to be joining in for the defence - they obviously don't want newcomers to see what outsiders think of Cagan's book
http://www.lulu.com/content/757452 My book on Maharaji - BRAINWASHED! A CULT SURVIVOR'S TALE
Arthur Chappell arthur@chappell7300.freeserve.co.uk
My Space. http://www.myspace.com/56954240
Web site www.arthurchappell.clara.net/
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I dunno but we do get the odd premie come over from America and settle over here... And Radford Ellis sounds like the names an american rather than australian would choose.
Anyway, isn't the world of EV PR international?
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Radford Ellis says in his profile on Amazon he's from Australia, and the Aussies that have posted in communication with exes have a track record of being especially nasty. 
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Mar 07, 2007, 14:46:51
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of David's name you get Radvoud Ellip: same no. of letters, 7 the same, only 3 different.
I'd bet they're the same.
Modified by Lp at Wed, Mar 07, 2007, 15:12:56
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 I am thinking though that Radvoud Ellip might just be another bird come to flock together. Not for any good reason other than that it occurred to me.
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......is what I make it, which is just as good as any other name for an English renegade down under, in the internet age.
Not that I have any interest in whether R.Ellis is or isn't the shithead Roupell.
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yeah, I couldn't give two hoots either
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There is a Radford Ellis who is an Elvis impersonator: http://www.radfordellis.com/ Perhaps more interestingly, if you put his name through Brendan's Online Anagram Generator, you get as one variant: A FLED LORD IRS
Next week, I crack the Nostradamus Code
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but I have got yours cracked pl
31
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The 31 bus used to be the hippie run, in London: King's Rd., Chelsea, Fulham Rd., Earl's Court, High St. Kensington, Notting Hill Gate...
Modified by Lp at Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 00:59:52
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Equality.
A teeter totter or see saw, will only balance if it has this. Once it begins to fall one way or the other, it keeps on going.
Once there is an imbalance of human worth, humanitarian values are in decline.
Making a guru more important than other people upsets this balance.
Even truths are seen as false when relating to him. While common human beings, especially those who did not accept or later rejected the teachings, are seen as less than insignificant and rude treatment of them in that vein is also seen as acceptable behaviour and nothing they need be held responsible for.
When the guru is criticized, it is worse for the follower than a personal affront, it is, for them completely unacceptable, and an aggression not even in character with the true person, rises up to defend the guru, even when such criticism is justified or fairly presented.
While defending his image, degradation of others is not even remembered by the guru or his followers. So convinced are they of the special worth of the guru that it leaves them with little estimation of the intrinsic worth of ordinary, average human beings. The poor are viewed with contempt as, especially, are any with ill effects or sufferings cited as arising from following the guru.
That the defence is often to say that the leaver came for the wrong reasons or never really loved the guru is another extremely cynical approach. It is to the extent that heart, mind, love, plans for life, relationship with the world, the universe etc.. were given over to the guru that it was painful, and in direct proportion to the degree of surrender and devotion..
Because the guru is actively seeking out new targets for his indoctrination techniques it renders him unentitled to a more laisse faire approach. The imbalance of equality was his first major mistake. Hierarchical value gradients lead eventually to drastic extremes. One man becomes the Absolute Supreme, the rest of the race are the dregs.
His trawling for converts is the biggest objection and the major reason that we cannot let this guru do his own thing with our blessing. If they wanted to just meet and listen to him sing, fine, but the guru's kingdom cannot survive, (largely due to the insatiable appetites of the guru,) without new recruits.
There is no need to look deep for reasons why the guru is not beneficial to the human race. Though there are many.
Equality. Break this rule of thumb and all the other mores and principles of human conduct and mutual respect begin to fall like a house of cards. The guru's pedestal is his problem.
The blindness starts there. With eyes, head and heart filled with the guru's self importance, a follower of a guru cannot see the worth of individual members of the human race, in just the same way that the guru cannot. Oddly, though they may never have seen the guru with his guard down: without realizing it, they behave in the same way: disparagingly, without respect, insultingly to any who disagree in the slightest detail.
Recounting a bad experience on the guru's "knowledge" path, is not viewed with compassion or concern, but with an aggressive defence of the guru's name and image for the eyes of the rest of society; who are the reserved targets for his next propagation fantasy, and fundraising drive. The complainant is immediately targeted for being discredited and invalidated as a human being lest their testimony be heard and taken seriously.
Ordinary persons are not seen as having value in either scenaro. The leaver is a wicked detractor, the rest are potential punters, even the followers are not regarded by the guru as having any intrinsic worth, but as expendable, replaceable servants whose minds are not coaxed into meditative bliss but made to carry the burden of his indulgence, and resultant need for secrecy, and to be scape goats for his own ineptitude.
They often have to take the blame for things occurring purely because of the guru's attitude. Even with the best will in the world , he is impossible to work for or with, because he resents having to give any credit to others. The better a follower becomes at his job, particularly if it is a job the guru regards as his own, public speaking for example, or achievement in meditation or insight, the greater the contempt the guru heaps upon that servant.
This alone is sufficient to show the error of the guru path. It is based upon a most unequal division of the human race and flies in the face of one of the most basic principles of humanity.
Regard and treat others as your equals.
Saph.
Modified by Lp at Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 05:04:53
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It's good to read that stuff written down. And I think it is a sober analysis of why when I actally think about Rawat I have to add some term, like I dunno,.. pompous twit.
And then I have to sigh for the thought that I listened to him for so long, oh dear. I console myself with the thought that there were of course times I was off in my head thinking my own stuff.
Okay, okay, so he's a stupid horrible man, not of course the only one on the planet, but I think there must be times he feels such a fool as he hoists himself up on stage - and surveys his older and wiser audience - wonder if he ever dons his crown and krishna suit these days, oh dear indeed.
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The letters in the name "Larry Lustbader" when rearranged spell "LARRDY: REAL BUST" Kabir
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(Actually 12 letters each, 9 the same, 3 different)
Lp (ennyh) ow
ps at this point in time the two threads misleading book and guru aka PR are neck and neck at 157 posts each the others are merely 9, 4, 3 and 2. Just noticed.
Modified by Lp at Mon, Mar 19, 2007, 18:28:03
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........PennyH, (above ref.) has now become Jonas, who once was Radford .........
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Arthur - yes you should complain, there's no reason to tolerate that crap. It's irrelevant who the individuals being attacked are, the cultists simply should not be allowed to get away with their abusive behaviour. And at least someone at Amazon will have their attention drawn to how damaging Rawat and his followers are, adding to the general education of the public. Nik
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Thanks for setting me straight, Nik. What a bunch of cowards and bullies those premie men are. Picking on a woman who doesn't even have the right of reply on that board (I haven't purchased anything from Amazon in years so they won't let me make a post without buying something!). 
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Mar 07, 2007, 11:12:51
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can you include a link to the discussion EACH time you post what is going on there? That would be helpful for those reading your posts and don't not know what you are talking about. You include each time your sites but forget Amazons. thanks
Modified by Axis at Wed, Mar 07, 2007, 12:23:30
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David Roupell is a particularly viscious premie from Australia who came on the forum several years ago posing as a teenaged girl, who said that "she" didn't care if one of Jagdeo's victims was raped by a herd of elephants. I thought he sounded familiar in writing style, etc. Just my speculation, mind.
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Mar 07, 2007, 13:08:36
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though we also have the word 'viscous'. So are you coining a new word for a particularly slimy, vicious bastard?
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Viscous - that was a good typo of mine! I obviously don't think all premies or other people from Australia are nasty people. It's just that for about three years, they all but turned me off to your country.
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Mar 07, 2007, 16:52:35
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the couple of posts I saw here from catweasel were vitriolic. Not to mention Roupells herd of elephants.
There are the odd nice people around the place though, plus the occasional friendly echidna.
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'To read the NEWEST POST, FOR THOSE WHO ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT PAGE, select the option NEWEST FIRST, located on the upper right side of the page/screen.A very good analysis of who Rawat is and the abusive behavior of his followers displayed in the discussion/critique of Rawat's latest lie he calls, "his biography".
Related link: Close Watch 3/8/07
Modified by Axis at Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 12:56:22
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Good done job Arthur!"Radford" attempt to erase his tracks deleting most of his posts was not surprising, no(I have the deleted ones ifanybody wants them) and saying goodbye in such a "sweet"way leaving behind all the deleted posts as proof of the abuse he inflicted upon you is very telling. He is a looser, another of Prem Rawat's victims. I wish "Radford" REAL freedom. You "slapped "Radford" with the truth each and every time, I read the whole thing and poor "Radford" HAD to retrieve. What else could he have done with all you brought on the table? But his last post is so very sad. Blaming on you the anger he feels not understanding where the anger is coming from. PR created monsters who like to talk about "love". The outcome of your hard work deserves cheers! The truth is exposed and Rawat cannot stop what he himself started: a world of LIES, catching up quickly with him thanks to the Internet he told us to avoid, the same Internet he uses so "well" lately. Prem Rawat can ask (as he did) to all the countries to clog the Internet with good reports but he cannot change who he really is. Steadily, he continues to get himself in deeper waters, and i thank God for answering my prayers. All we ex-premies wanted at some point was a simple public apology and he couldn't do it. Not enough of a man to do it. He continues to offend his ex-followers, continue to target the innocent and HIS KINGDOM NEEDS TO GO DOWN, as Close Watch stated. Radford: The perfect example of what a devotee is capable of becoming. A discomposed fruit because Rawat is just a false prophet. Plain and simple. I think I know why Rawat is doing what he is doing: More and more of his old devotees are leaving and he is so very afraid of a massive lawsuit. Face it, he knows that it is just a matter of time. With me at least, it is. I'm healing and getting ready. In the name of all those who killed themselves and in mine, who almost succeeded attempting suicide, in the name of all those premies suffering, confused, as my son's father is, I thank you once more Arthur. I used to post over and over here "the best is yet to come" and I think the end is finally near. Rawat runs a very dangerous cult and it needs to be told. The Internet is one of the greatest tools ever created and we ex devotees have used it extremely well, and it will continue. A great public service. Bye now. Silvia
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Daily rolls out the same news flash from Buenos Aires U.N. regarding the White helmets, as "Radford" did on March 4 07 on Amazon: Cagan book: misleading book about cult leader.
recycled camouflage.
A Powerful post Silvia,
Thankyou.
Modified by Lp at Thu, Mar 08, 2007, 15:13:31
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I found it particularly appalling that amongst all the venom, Lustbader would actually lie about the transcript of the so-called "Peace Bomb" speech and claim you had used a doctored version. So I dragged out my copy as well and had a look and yes, amongst other paranoid ravings, Rawatboy did declare he'd destroy those films that basically aren't about him or should I say Him.
At least the insults and invective are what Larry's twisted mind really believes but surely he isn't that crazy that he actually believes you've deliberately misquoted the speech when he claimed to have a transcript that he'd been re-reading for decades. Anyway there is another real copy posted at:
http://www.prem-rawat-bio.org/dlm_pubs/peacebomb.html
with accompanying pictures and quotes and page numbers and I even have the photocopies and the scans
Modified by ocker at Fri, Mar 09, 2007, 01:29:27
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The love bomb Satsang is a scary speech for a 12 year old and more explicit than any other i've seen from him in his declaration of intent to take over the planet and regard for himself as a living God - "The great leaders think that I have come to rule and yes, they are right! I will rule the world, and just watch how I will do it. Even the lion and sheep will embrace each other. Has there been such a king before? Krishna was not such a king. Rama was not such a king. There were lesser powers in Ram, there were lesser powers in Krishna, but I have come to the world with full powers." He sounds like a comic book super-villain. Ludicrous, chilling
http://www.lulu.com/content/757452 My book on Maharaji - BRAINWASHED! A CULT SURVIVOR'S TALE
Arthur Chappell arthur@chappell7300.freeserve.co.uk
My Space. http://www.myspace.com/56954240
Web site www.arthurchappell.clara.net/
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>a scary speech for a 12 year old< Well yes 12 year olds are often scary in their emotional intensity - but take away the stage and the audience and all you have left is a scared kid in mourning trying to resurrect his lost father in himself. Prem's bad karma was that other people believed his raving, instead of simply saying "yes we miss Hans too". Nik
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His father died in 1966. The Peace Bomb speech was made in 1970. Sure it was an event that was supposed to be in his hounour but so far in his life Prem Rawat has shown an insensitivity to others that makes it unlikely he was still in mourning for his father.
I find the speech ludicrous rather than chilling. And where does he learn this shit, after all. He's not learning it at St Joey's. He must be taught this nonsense by his mother and the senior members of DLM including Charanand and "Sampu" because while he may have discovered that everyone around him obey his whims he must also have learnt by then that he has no supernatural powers or control over the natural world.
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>he must also have learnt by then that he has no supernatural powers or control over the natural world< Why must he have learnt that ? Young adolescents are especially prone to 'magical thinking' - and if Prem was not still mourning the loss of his father then he was a very strange child indeed. As to learning his 'megalomania' my guess would be that it evolved as a kind of endless feedback - Prem repeats something that Hans (or Charananand or Sampu or whovever) has said previously- the adulants parrot approval of the young savant - Prem says it back againmaking it just a bit more of his own each time and soon there's a definitive scripture. But at its heart there's still a messed up kid trying to be his father - only unlike dada he aint gonna die - not ever, ever, ever. Nik
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