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Just write a review talking about how stupid and empty the "poetry" is with lots of comments about how it makes you feel (like vomiting for example). You can talk about how the verses are consistent (or inconsistent) with other things Rawat has written or said and about how the text reveals a lot about him. Jim did a great job doing that, and he hasn't been removed. That is all within the Amazon guidelines.
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Jim, what was the title of your review? I can't find it. Maybe they removed some others because the "overall rating" is back up to five stars and it was down closer to four. It also says 47 reviews and I'd thought it was more earlier. There has to be a premie somewhere inside there. Or some premie somewhere is doing "service" of reporting on everything negative coming in. Amazon is removing everything they possibly can, it appears, that can be said to be the least bit outside their "guidelines". Many of the premie reviews are, in my opinion, far outside the guidelines by raving about Rawat in blissful terms. They are certainly not simply reviewing the title, but are obviously worshipping the author. If that is allowed, negative comments must be allowed also, even if they are about the author. What is going on over there? Are some premies really that far gone? Is all negative comment about his Lardship to be suppressed? Good god, that's disgusting. It proves, in a way, that he really is nothing. If they have to work that hard to keep all other comments silenced, they don't have much at the base of it all. Maybe it is all just a house of cards.
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Premie Spouse, God damned if they didn't remove it again! Mine was just above Mr. Fitzroy's the last time I looked but it's gone again. What the hell is with these people? Anyway, I'll write them again.
Modified by Jim at Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 20:12:04
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So I just called Amazon (800-201-7575) and spoke with a woman who confirmed that my review was indeed pulled, regardless of Amazon telling me as recently as Sunday that it was fine and would stay up. I told her that and read her the Sunday email. She was able to access my review which, at first blush, struck her as outside the guidelines of not trashing a book or its author. I then explained the background of this dispute ('70's cult leader, Lord of the Universe, drivel, mindless cult followers responding to a group directive to write fawning reviews) and voiced some serious concern about a policy that would accept all this worthless junk from the cult but prohibit honest feedback. I analogized the situation to some white supremicists posting some racist screed like the Protocols of Zion. Surely, I said, it would only be fair to present some negative commentary which, in the circumstances, we could assume would be scathing and condemnatory. She said she appreciated the point and said she would send my review along with her own comments summarizing my concerns to the big review judges in the Amazon sky. I told her that if she was going to do that she might want to send them the link to EPO as well so they could better appreciate the issue. She said she would. In fact, I just checked and Amazon does indeed sell the Protocols of Zion, along with the very kind of nasty reviews a book like that deserves. Take a look at Amazon's proud explanation for this most dubious decision. If they take a different tack with Rawat now, I'll be furious. And now, dear friends, I will wait my two business days ...
Related link: Amazon's PoZ page
Modified by Jim at Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 20:43:28
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Now I'm getting pissed off. I looked a little further and, sure enough, Amazon even sells Hitler's Mein Kampf. As you can expect, beyond the neo-nazis' glowing praise for this vile, racist work of evil, are reviews that absolutely trash the book, trash the author. Here, for instance: 8 of 96 people found the following review helpful:  worse than c-span, March 8, 2005
this book is a diatribe and its really boring.
he is like someone who has the basics of something down
but kind of has missed the whole point. in this case
that something would be logic and reasoning.
however, if you want to find out some reasons behind
why the guy is so screwed in the head, you can read
between the lines here and figure it out.
he was a loser, complete unwanted, germany was in
depression, no jobs, no nothing, and this dumb
@#$@#$ decided he wanted to do something about it....
by killing millions of people and invading other countries.
----
like a kid who discovers how a hammer works and proceeds
to use it to bash other kids and take candy, instead
of building something.
----
also its funny to read about how he admired henry
ford for being anti-semitic. gosh i thought america
was anti-hitler from the start, what with all the
indiana jones and john wayne movies i have seen over the years. So can anyone tell me how my review was any different? This comes down to Amazon downright protecting a cult leader, guidelines or no guidelines. Gr ....
Related link: Someone trashing Hitler's Mein Kampf on Amazon
Modified by Jim at Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 21:04:06
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Hi Jim. I'd wondered about similar situations at Amazon but hadn't yet had time to look into it. I'm so glad you did! Please keep me posted about your dealings with them. I am hoping to be able to post the story of the man who e-mailed me about his review getting pulled. His name is Thomas and the review is finally there, but only after he removed his statement that the book was written by a known cult leader and had been largely reviewed only by cult members. Nothing even negative about his Lardship! Only that statement. It got pulled, he wrote to Amazon four of five times and Amazon finally refused to discuss it with him further. I'll ask for permisson to post his e-mails...I hope he still has them!
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Here's their email: Thank you for writing to Amazon.com.
Your comment was removed because of inappropriate content. We
encourage all voices to respond openly in our store, both positive
and negative. However, we do exert some editorial control over our
customer reviews.
Please understand that we wholeheartedly support the right to free
speech. Our intention is to make the customer review forum a place
for commentary and feedback about titles, so discussions that
criticize authors and their intentions are removed. Your comments
were, in part, directed toward the author and their character.
What I can suggest is that you resubmit your review, but restrict
your comments to critically analyzing the content of the title.
Thanks for your cooperation.
Please let us know if this e-mail resolved your question:
If yes, click here:
http://www.amazon.com/rsvp-y?c=htqyfvgr3458532859
If not, click here:
http://www.amazon.com/rsvp-n?c=htqyfvgr3458532859&q=hcm2
And here's my reply: Thank you for your latest reply in a series explaining why you have either deleted -- or not deleted -- my review. This is our third go-round. Your database should reflect our various other exchanges but if not I'd be happy to provide them to you. In any event, this is hardly acceptable. My review most definitely falls within your guidelines exactly the same way that critical reviews of Mein Kampf, Dianetics or the Protocols of Zion do. It debunks the text and offers some insight into the author. There is something fishy here. Amazon appears to be arbitrarily protecting this one cult leader, Prem Rawat, allowing an endless parade of empty, fawning reviews for his nonsensical book while striking down all the critical ones. The double standard would be readily apparent to anyone and I insist on an explanation. Could it be that Amazon has some sort of business relationship with this cult? I don't know but then perhaps that's a question an interested reporter might be able to get to the bottom of: why WOULD Amazon protect the reputation of this one cult leader but not other infamous "authors: and crackpots? Unless I get some real answers here, I am most certainly going to the press. Sincerely, Jim Heller
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It's still there. Maybe the cult went after you because yours was nearer the top? Anyhow, I've read the guidelines and your review did not violate them in any way. Keep up the fight with Amazon, and I'd be happy to help if I can.
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There is just one significant difference between your review and Jim's. Both were eloquent and rational, but maybe by describing himself as 'industrial grease remover' at the top (which I found hilariously funny) Jim triggered alarm-bells with the Amazon content monitors, who maybe saw it as a gratuitously provocative ad hominem attack from someone just looking for a fight. Otherwise I can't see any reason for deleting one and not the other.
Modified by Nigel at Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 13:21:44
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I wonder why I haven't heard from Amazon so fast this time. Surely, it couldn't have been my aggressive threat to go to the press, could it? You know, I thought about that before I hit "submit" on their complaint form. As far as I'm concerned, these guys are giving me (possibly "us" the run-around. I shouldn't have to waste my time jumping through these hoops to satisfy their blatantly capricious and unsettled "guidelines". My indignant response was justified. Plus, I do think we really should go to the press, seek out some reporter who thinks there's a story here. The threat was genuine and, if Amazon doesn't offer a satisfactory reply, I think we should really find some way to expose this travesty. But then maybe they're just kinda busy ...
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Okay, so here is the my latest exchange with Amazon, starting with my reply, then what I'm replying to. Not exactly a "meeting of the minds" yet but, well, we'll see: Dear Mr. Norberg: Thank you for your reply. I'm sorry but it's hard to take your "sympathy with [my] frustration" seriously when you didn't even attempt to address my specific concern, namely that Amazon sells various books by other infamous authors (e.g. notorious dictators, cult leaders, racists, frauds, etc.) for which you allow extremely damning reviews no different in kind than my own. Here, for example, is a link to Amazon's "featured" review for Dianetics: http://www.prem-rawat-talk.org/forum/posts/1225.html I can't imagine how this review -- or some of the others I've noticed and mentioned below -- differs in kind than mine. Indeed, it seems that even you guys can't really tell the difference as other Amazon employees earlier assured me there was nothing wrong with it! Unless and until you can satisfy me that there really is some significant difference between such scathingly critical reviews and my own, I will have no choice but to suspect that Amazon is favoring and protecting this particular cult for some reason. Let me ask you directly, DOES Amazon have a business relationship with Rawat or any organization he's affiliated with (other than simply offering his "writings", such as they are, for sale?). As for wanting reviews to be "objective", could you kindly explain to me what in the world that means? I thought reviews were inherently SUBJECTIVE. Isn't that what opinions are all about? If you seriously want to thank me for my understanding, as you sign off, you have to give me something to understand. Right now, I see nothing but a gross disparity in the application of your vague and apparently capricious guidelines. Let's cut out the patronizing assurances and discuss this frankly, shall we? Thank you for YOUR understanding. Jim Heller P.S. I wasn't kidding about the press. I've already had some success drawing media attention to this cult before and a story that exposed Amazon's strange behaviour here might strike some reporters as rather intriguing. ________________________________________ Thank you for writing back to us at Amazon.com. I have reviewed our previous correspondence and your account. I sympathize with your frustration in this matter. However, please understand that the information provided in our last message correctly represents our policy at this time. As my colleague previously mentioned, "Our intention is to make the customer review forum a place for commentary and feedback about titles, so discussions that criticize authors and their intentions are removed. Your comments were, in part, directed toward the author and their character." It is important that reviews remain objective and pertain to the item that is being reviewed. Thank you for your understanding. We hope to see you again at Amazon.com. Please let us know if this e-mail resolved your question: If yes, click here: http://www.amazon.com/rsvp-y?c=hcgyycxr3467183467 If not, click here: http://www.amazon.com/rsvp-n?c=hcgyycxr3467183467&;q=hcm2 Please note: this e-mail was sent from an address that cannot accept incoming e-mail. To contact us about an unrelated issue, please visit the Help section of our web site. Best regards, Jonathan Norberg Amazon.com Customer Service http://www.amazon.com ============================== Check your order and more: http://www.amazon.com/your-account ref_id:=fcwdycxr1319707366 > Date: Wed Jan 25 18:15:15 UTC 2006 > Subject; HMD Feedback to Amazon.com > To: int-community-help__7i7i7i@amazon.com > From: jimheller@shaw.ca">jimheller@shaw.ca > > --------------- > 01/25/06 10:15:13 > NAME: Jim Heller >COMM ID: htqyfvgr3458532859 > COMMENTS: Thank you for your latest reply in a series explaining why you have either deleted -- or not deleted -- my review. This is our third go-round. Your database should reflect our various other exchanges but if not I'd be happy to provide them to you. > > In any event, this is hardly acceptable. My review most definitely falls within your guidelines exactly the same way that critical reviews of Mein Kampf, Dianetics or the Protocols of Zion do. It debunks the text and offers some insight into the author. > > There is something fishy here. Amazon appears to be arbitrarily protecting this one cult leader, Prem Rawat, allowing an endless parade of empty, fawning reviews for his nonsensical book while striking down all the critical ones. The double standard would be readily apparent to anyone and I insist on an explanation. Could it be that Amazon has some sort of business relationship with this cult? I don't know but then perhaps that's a question an interested reporter might be able to get to the bottom of: why WOULD Amazon protect the reputation of this one cult leader but not other infamous "authors: and crackpots? > > Unless I get some real answers here, I am most certainly going to the press. > > Sincerely, > > Jim Heller | |
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Modified by Jim at Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 10:12:17
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Or else Amazon is going to have to do a total overhaul of their system. I just did a search on Moon and there are flagrant reviews of reviews regarding the book his daughter in law wrote. I think I will look around at other cult leaders and what happened. I think I will start with Dianetics since premies seem to have started to read their playbook. Frankly, I bet whoever the moron premie who opened the can of worms by putting Rawat's book at Amazon is probably not getting front row seat at the next event. This was a totally predictable result of taking this step in the Rawat legitimacy campaign. This is not Wikipedia and I for one think that your review, unless there is something I didn't notice, is entirely within the guidelines and that the guidelines seem to be very fluid. They are obviously getting complaints about the review. I am a major Amazon customer and I think they are generally a very ethical company and justice will prevail. I bet they just need to sort it all out. Somehow the Satganda stuff, which seems way more inflammatory to me, is still up. I am guessing its because there is great precident for that with "Listmania" and "So you'd like to.........." I found a guide that was "So you'd like to read books written by really ugly authors". Also, they seem to leave the cult member complaint reviews of anti cult books up. I suspect that is because ex members expect those complaints and the complainers tend to unwittingly prove the points in the books because they just don't know how to sound like anything but cult memebers. I would search Rev Moon, Osama Bin Laden, Charles Manson, Rashneesh, Jim Jones et all. It would be interesting to see what sort of consistancy you see if how the guidelines are enforced. Oh yes and old L Ron, thats gonna be interesting.
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Spotlight Reviews 120 of 138 people found the following review helpful: How to get into a cult and lose everything!, May 1, 2005
Don't waste your money. I did - but only 6 pounds thankfully - others have lost EVERYTHING THEY OWN. This book is an entry point into the Scientology cult - a dangerous blend of pseudo-psychotherapy, religion and science fiction. I bought this book from one of the cult's members in Bournemouth, UK several years ago. You can find scientologist recruiters on city streets everywhere. A popular trick (used on me) is to ask - survey style - "if you could change three things in your life, what would they be". Alternatively, they use a 'personality questionnaire' - with no scientific basis and no demonstrated psychometric validity. The scientologist wrote my three answers down and mentioned a book which could help - DIANETICS. I was taken to a basement beneath a pub, which was full of the books, and others by the Author Ron Hubbard, the founder of the Church of Scientology. I am a PhD psychologist (university lecturer) - not stupid - but was persuaded due to my interest in psychology ahd counselling. I bought the book for 6 pounds, and was asked to give my name and address, in order to send out a "receipt". What I received was over 10 letters from scientology cult members asking if I had resolved my threee issues, and offering help in their branch at Christchurch. The book itself is full of unscientific nonsense with no basis other than the ramblings of a failed science fiction writer. The language is deliberately complex to baffle and impress the average reader. The author was a science fiction writer, who saw that he could make more money by inventing a new religion - Hubbard: "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion". Scientology has been exposed as a cult by many independent Judges and Governments, and by the press (famously by Time magazine, 1991). Scientology has been banned on and off in many countries and states (e.g. Victoria, West Australia for several years inthe 1960s to 1980s). However, the cult issues legal procedings citing copyright infringement against journalists, newpapers and websites that reveal any negative information about Scientology. Thousands of people have payed tens of thousands of dollars for a pseudo-therapy known as "auditing". Tens of thousands of dollars and some years later, on reaching an "advanced level" known as OT III, you are told that...the cause of your (and everyone's) problems was that the world is full of the souls of space aliens murdered 75 million years ago. The alien galactic ruler Xenu was in charge of Earth and 75 other planets in this part of the galaxy some 75 million years ago and cured overpopulation by paralysing the people of the other planets, flying them to Earth in DC-8 space planes, arranged them round a volcano to murder them with H bombs. These souls of murdered people were gathered up and boxed, taken to cinemas and shown films for several days. The end result was that the souls clustered together and now inhabit people in their thousands. Scientology will help "clear" you of this, at great expense. Sounds lusicrous? Check it out for yourself. Oh, and notice how NEARLY ALL THE REVIEWS ON HERE ARE FROM CULT MEMBERS. This cult is big business.
This book is the start of this journey of mind-control and money extraction. For more information, type "Scientology" and "Cult" into a search engine and look at the results. Also find the Time magazine article on the internet: Time Magazine May 6, 1991, page 50. Also, Satganda is starting to get spammed from premies writing reviews of how they love Rawat, Rumi, Mirabai and Tai Chi. I think we need to see a few more so you'd like to lists and listmania lists. I by the way just bought a book "my life in Orange" and red the whole thing last night about a boy in the Rashneesh cult. It was truly heartbreaking. I am glad I feel for our mutual con man instead of that one. Still wish I'd fell for none at all though. |
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> I am glad I feel for our mutual con man instead of that one. Better get editing quick!
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I lost track of whose post I was reading. Apologies to Susan too for not paying attention. It's still funny though, whichever the author... And 'My Life in Orange' which I heard serialised on the radio really is truly sad and shocking... Nige the anti-psychologist.
Modified by Nigel at Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 12:39:19
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Nigel, We all get confused in life but if what you read is as small as what you've written here above, no wonder you got us mixed up! 
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Oh, dear - font trouble/screen res. problems again. Christ, much as I love computers, I still despise Microsoft software and its baffling over-complex, under-explained maze of settings. Time to go AppleMac or Linux, maybe... (What is bizarre is the fact I always check the size of the font as it appears to me after I have posted to make sure it looks the same as everyone elses - which it does, usually.) Is this big enough?
Modified by Nigel at Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 12:55:18
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Nige, All the text in your message looks like a "3 (12pt)" to me -- in other words, normal -- except for "Is this big enough?" which is one step bigger and unnecessarily so (from my perspective). But, really, it's not a big deal one way or the other. Don't worry about it.
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Is Amazon's treatment of Rawat at all influenced by a commercial relationship between Amazon and Amtext Inc. (Sterling Educational Media) an academic book 're-seller' which is wholly owned by Prem Rawat. ? http://www.sterlingedu.com/about_sterling.htm
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My list of "customers who looked at this also looked at" includes a LOT of freshman collge texts. I was wondering about the amtext thing too. Is it legal?
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I can't see anything obviously 'illegal' about a business relationship between Amtext/Sterling and Amazon - but Amazon's Corporate Responsibility looks a bit questionable if it is offering favoured reviews to people it does business with. Any business that Amtext/Sterling does via Amazon will probably be disguised via an Amazon specific operating name. Nik
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| | | The Gift Paperback by Hafiz $15.00 $10.20 | | |
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The Gift by Hafiz is put out by the Meher Baba people. The translator is an active emeber in the Asheville area. Karen
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Here is my response to Amazon's response to me (which I posted below):Hi Erin Thanks for your response. I have read the guidelines as you suggest, and there is no question that the deleted reviews I point out are within your guidelines. There are many other books from cult leaders that Amazon sells that you allow negative reviews that do touch on the subject matter. Yet you treat similar reviews from this cult leader, Prem Rawat, quite differently. For example, read Hugh M Bright's review of Hitler's Mein Kampf on your pages; or the review 'How to get into a cult and lose everything!' on Dianetics. The fact is that Amazon is caught in cult wars between people pro and anti. All I am asking is that Amazon be consistent. Do not have a favored list of cult leaders for whom you allow no criticism, and others for whom it is OK to criticize. I know that Jim Heller is taking this issue up at a high level with Amazon, and a number of ex-followers of Prem Rawat are considering making a public issue out of this, including myself. Please do not patronise me with a 'read the guidelines' response. All I am asking is that you apply your own guidelines consistently and maintain a neutral and impartial stand. If you are unable to address this issue, please pass this email thread up to someone who can. Thanks again. -- Mike Finch (long-term customer of Amazon since the early days)
Email: mrf@sent.com
www.MikeFinch.com
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Thanks for writing to us at Amazon.com.
I apologize for the inconvenience caused to you in this matter.
We would be happy to look into this matter further. To help us find
the comments in our archives, we will require more information.
Please use the link below to send us the full title and ISBN or ASIN
of the item reviewed, and subject line and date of the review as it
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Thank you for your cooperation and patience. We look forward to
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Amazon.com Customer Service
http://www.amazon.com It's hard to believe that they can't locate the reviews in question by just giving the title and author! But there you are--more run-around, no doubt. Soon they'll be organising a committee to look into it. Yeah, right! It's all so odd, because I've seen truly vitriolic reviews of other stuff over the years, and reviews that refer to other reviews of the same, as well! I don't intend to send them a review of Clarity because I haven't seen the book and don't intend to get it--not even for this purpose. Gotta hang onto some integrity in the face of this premie crap where there isn't much! Hang in there, Jim! Thanks for fighting this. And for your excellent response to them, Mike! ~Shelagh
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QUOTEBook of Poetry by Guru Maharaj Ji aka Maharaji aka Prem Rawat, January 25, 2006 Satganda Irving - See all my reviews This is a book of poetry written by Prem Rawat. It is important for the reader to be aware who the author of this book is. Prem Rawat is the former leader of the Divine Light Mission, then Elan Vital and now the Prem Rawat Foundation. In the text offered on Amazon Rawat says this: I help people understand
That there is hope
and that there is a beautiful purpose in life
instead of all the mundane things
that we find ourselves caught up in
What I offer is Knowledge. (note the capitalization of the word Knowledge) I suggest that the reader of this book compares how Prem Rawat's book Clarity compares to his other books offered on Amazon. The living master: Quotes from Guru Maharaj Ji published by the Divine Light Mission in 1978 Here are some quotes from that book : What is service? Service is an experience that you get, via Knowledge, when you perform an act for Guru Maharaj Ji in any way - even if it's in Australia, if it's in the North Pole, if it's in the South Pole, if Guru Maharaj Ji is there or not there, but your heart is there. (Rome Italy; March 28, 1977) And Guru Maharaj Ji invites the people who have received this Knowledge to accompany him in the adventure of revealing this Truth, revealing this Knowledge, to the whole world. And that's his mission. I have invited premies to join me, to give me their love, to give me their devotion, to give me their strength, so that people can understand, and this Knowledge can be spread to thousands and millions of people who are just confused, who are just going around in circles and will keep on going. For generations and generations before them, people have been going around in circles, and have not been given a fair opportunity to get out of there and to realize the simple aim of human life. (Lima, Peru; November 18, 1976) What is meditation?
Perfect concentration upon a perfect thing is called meditation. Just remember that. For then you are making your soul and God into one, and at that time you are receiving perfect communion with God. Because you have put all your mind into the Knowledge, into that Peace, which is God. It is interesting for the reader to contemplate what really may have changed in the author's belief system in the years between the publication of these two books.
The living master: Quotes from Guru Maharaj Ji END
Modified by cq at Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 17:20:08
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Jim, telling people the book is about a cult leader doesn't allow people to find out the crucial ending of the story the way we did.
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