I hope I'm using this board correctly... I mean as far as the organization of posts go... hints are appreciated.

So it seems to me, finally reading some of the messages, that Your Jiji is more malevant than our Carlitos..

But Carlos' followers are generally more evil than you guys.

There is never a good reason to follow Carlos... he appealed to folks' desire for grandiosity, control, and obsessive lying.

None of our guys got taken in because they wanted peace, love, or to save the planet... We're mostly a dark bunch of loners and antisocials.

We got taken in specifically because we wanted to play don Juan to our own Carloses. "You're talking like an idiot", don Juan would say, "You know nothing of power"...

It seems that a recovering Premie has to repent of his naivety first and foremost, Whereas a recovering nagual has to repent of blatant misanthropy, and usually delusions of grandeur and paranoia.

And naivety, but that's after the darker heavier stuff gets addressed.

So addressing our personal responsibility for being "taken in" is probably a bigger deal than for premies.

Most of the really hardcore naguals don't believe at all, but just co-create Carlos' fantasies.... and we have a couple with genuine uh... mental and emotional "challenges" That's the word.... "challenges"

There is much to learn...and I am.. I am grateful for your comments and being able to exchange a little bit here... If I had to learn everything on my own, I'd be stupider than I am.