| Just so this Jonx response to Anth doesn't get lost... |
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This is Jonx responding to Anth below. Personally, I think Jonx has completely lost it. Notice what Jonx says about parenting. Who does this Jonx think he's talking to???
Quotes of Captain Rawat extolling the virtues of a mother's love for her children, the courage of rescue workers, or the love between his fellow human beings don't exist.
Then you were never listening mate (okay rescue workers is a stretch). I don't have access to archives, nor do I have the time to do an extensive search, so I'm at a disadvantage. Nonetheless, I recall many times when he extolled the virtue of the human spirit. Example that comes to mind: "Human effort is human dignity".
Also, I look at the example he has always given as a parent, and it exemplifies love, caring, and understanding. Look mate, I'm a parent; I know the virtues of what that means. But I know also that it has limits.
He has always called a spade a spade in that regard, almost as a counter to the perception that parental love is the highest. It's high; it's joyous; it's fulfilling... yes... but it has limits. Ask the parent whose kids have left and they never hear from, or worse, whose kids have died. It's easy to get caught into some ego-centric martyr complex being a parent, and he's never let me get away with that. But that has never eroded my deep love for my kids, or appreciation for my responsibility as a parent. On the contrary, it has freed me to love them even more.
Sorry mate but your tirade doesn't bear any resemblance to the real man... or have you totally forgotten?
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Mar 30, 2005, 09:10:00
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I look at the example (Rawat) has always given as a parent, and it exemplifies love, caring, and understandingAn interesting theory. Maybe it's like being brought up in any Mob -- the Godfather is always reputed to love his children, so, so very much, and even to "exemplify" love, caring and understanding. Maybe bedtimes go something like, "I understand you kids are revolted by my morals and business conduct". "Man, you're effing waste" "It is so fortunate I am perfect and have sufficient love for the both of us" "Eat my shorts, creep" But it *is* nice of Jonx to be clear that parental love is relatively so, well, low. I wonder what his kids think of having Daddy's Favourite Invisible Person as the centre of their family? Jonti
-- never a premie
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I was wondering if anyone else on this forum came into contact with Rawat just from the Elan Vital times, missing the older DLM. I feel green about M compared to the ex-premies who knew of him during DLM. Nevertheless, I got a different perspective in some ways, it seems as if Rawat wanting to look more "respectable" and thus covers up his old DLM guru gimmicks.
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The majority of the folks who post here left within the past five to seven years. That's EV days, including me.
Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Wed, Mar 30, 2005, 13:41:53
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Prem Rawat ~ "What I have is a constant LSD" ... What a Trip!
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I almost didn't receive Knowledge because of Maharaji's comparison of it to LSD. I'd had a couple of horrific trips and the last thing I wanted was to be on a "constant" LSD trip. It was a pretty strange trip just the same, LSD or not.
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DLM - DUO - EV - TPRF ......... don't think there's not going to be a next incarnation for Rawat's gimmick !The changes are only cosmetic. The only new thing very likely, is Rawat's physical impairment that's obviously increasing with time.
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Hey mate, you continue talking through your butt about things you know nothing about. My responsibility to my family is not in dispute by my kids, my wife, or anyone else who knows me.
Why don't you sit on the sideline and watch for awhile and stop looking like such an arse.
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So please don't be telling people here what to do or not to do, or what to say or not to say here. You have no standing to be telling anyone what to do here, Jonx.
Also, please stop swearing at people so much. You've been doing that a lot on your visit here this time around. It's crude.
Please remember that you are a guest on this forum. Just as a reminder, this forum doesn't belong to Prem Rawat, either, and what's said here isn't any of your or his business.
Cynthia
Modified by Cynthia at Thu, Mar 31, 2005, 06:46:21
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In all fairness, Cynthia, Jonti did say some heavy stuff about jonx as a parent. He compared him to The Godfather, for cripes sake! And what does he know about it? I think jonx's indignant riposte was fully warranted.
Sorry.
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Both Jonx and Jonti could benefit more from having a discussion with each other instead of taunting and swearing.
Modified by Cynthia at Thu, Mar 31, 2005, 10:26:32
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If logic worked on Jonx, then he would have realised his contradictory position already. And I have certainly not sworn at Jonx -- I have not responded to his provocative language except with euphemisms. I have continued to be be polite, albeit in a witheringly rude and English sort of way. That's taunting? If it is taunting to vigourously and lucidly spell out the logical implications of deluded positions, making fun of the logical contortions of the deluded, then yes, mea culpa. But is it a Bad Thing vigourously and lucidly to spell out the implications of a deluded position, when appeals to logic and reason have failed? I'm inclined to think not, but then again, I would say that, wouldn't I? Jonti
-- never a premie
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Jonti,
You're right, about the logic part and the taunting (Jonx has been doing it a lot). But, it would be helpful if you introduced yourself a bit (you don't have to give anything personal away) and let us know what your interest is by posting here. You just sort of jumped in and started posting as if you've been here for years, and I don't know you from Adam, so to speak. Or, did I miss your introduction?
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The name is John Tucker. You will be able to find many postings from me under the handle JohnT, starting in Forum5 days and running up to about a year ago. My first posting under the new monicker of Jonti was made here on 23rd March. I believe I have the unique distinction of being the only "never" ever to feel the wrath of Rawat's abuse of legal process. It's not a very interesting story, except for revealing just how low even a prominent firm of London libel lawyers (in this case, Schillings and Schillings) will stoop to pick up a few bucks from Rawat's coffers. Well, I say it's not very interesting, but I expect the partners of Schillings and Schillings would be fascinated were I to recount my experience of their involvement with Mr Rawat. So a friendly word to the you guys over at "Schillings and Schillings" of London -- don't even think of repeating what you did to me ever again. Not to me, not to anyone posting here. It might actually matter next time, in which case I will not find it nearly so amusing. So instead of having a bit of a chuckle at your gaucherie, I will more likely be so pissed at you I will set about to cause you a great deal more trouble and expense than you can cause me. You chose to act for a rather obvious crook, and acted in a rather odd way while doing it. Please take this as a friendly "heads-up" to clean up your act, guys. Even crooks won't use a firm that's gotten its brand badly sullied. Anyway, my involvement with these forums dates way back to around 200o, I think. I know many premies through my wife, who received "K" from an Instructor called Irene (in the eighties, I think, who lived over Clapham Junction way. PatC, who knows everyone, knows the initiator I mean). Mind you, I had come across the Divine Light Mission long before I met my wife and her premie friends, way back in my teenage school years. My mates and I called them the "Blight" even then, but it wasn't until a few years later that the full horror of the Personality Cult of the False Messiah become apparent. My chief claim to fame in ex-premie circles probably derives from a poetical work called Unholy Trinity, and, in particular, a poem called J'accuse. Jonti
-- never a premie
Modified by Jonti at Thu, Mar 31, 2005, 12:08:08
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Hi John,
It's good to see you again. I did have a feeling it was you, but I just wasn't sure. Like I said, you didn't have to give out your name, but I do remember your many posts of the past.
Welcome back and warm regards,
Cynthia
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That's right, it's fine to be anonymous here. There are risks to being open about one's real world identity, and it's not for everyone. On the other hand it does show the waverers that there is nothing to fear in leaving the cult -- and I have a feeling that some appreciate that demonstration! That said, I probably get off lightly. Like a company gone crazy, Rawat seems mostly to use lawyers against his one-time customers!
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I posted a "hello" to you a while back, as I was pretty sure it was you (well, the handle was pretty close to the old JohnT). But mostly I thought it was you from how articulate you are, and your skillful use of language. That gave you away. Always a pleasure to read.
Anyhow, I had heard that the cult went after you, and I'm very sorry that happened to you, it's very unfair. I don't know any of the details, but having the cult turn lawyers on you is a hassle and an irritation, if nothing else.
I've been attacked by premies a couple of times as well, and although it was ludicrous and silly, it still astounds me that people claiming to have "peace" can be so fucking hateful.
It makes me so glad I got out, and I'm sure you are relieved you never got suckered in the first place.
Good to see you here.
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Thanks for your kind words. I've pretty much always been been an atheist and I guess that's why I never believed the Messiah was here. The legal thing was grubby, and made a *very* bad impression, quite the contrary of what was hoped for, I imagine. Essentially, instead of complaining to my ISP about the contents of the Unholy Trinity site, Schillings and Schillings, a prominent London lawfirm, wrote to my *employers* with a nonsense story about me using my employer's resources to build the site! It was a blatant attempt to get me into trouble with my employers. But it was almost comical because the lawfirm used an old, discontinued website address. I'd changed ISPs and moved my site more than a year before!
These sorts of shenanigans do Rawat no good at all, I'm happy to say.
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Happy to hear that even with the big law firm the cult got nowhere with going after you. I wonder why they felt so threatened by your website.
The cult has a number of times tried to blackmail and attack people who criticise the Lord. First, there was the CAC website, that suggested people to contact our employers and professional associations, etc., and tell them we are criminals.
About 18 months ago, cultmembers sent a psychotic-appearing letter to my employers, saying that I has harassing people on the internet. All it did was make my employers have an extreme dislike for anybody related to Mr. Rawat, and most of the people there had never heard of him before, but now they have in the worst possible light.
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Nah,the Godfather figure was supposed to be Rawat (sorry for any confusion). And just to be clear, I did not introduce the topic of Jonx's family -- Jonx first brought them into the discussion (as some kind of human shield, I think) himself. Jonti
-- never a premie
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I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your instructing me on how to behave. Thanks, bud. And I didn't even need to ask for your kind guidance. Man, you are so, kind, it is like, totally awesome. I reckon even Rawat could learn from you.And let me tell you how pleased I was to learn your family is happy your love for Rawat is higher, I guess more profound and spiritual than your love for them. I mean, that all sounds so Perfect. I am sure your folks are all so proud of your advanced spiritual realisation, and your invisible friend. But it's only fair to mention that I remain deeply unimpressed myself. The way you keep dodging my challenge seems to me rather more in the manner of a Dodgy Saleman than in the manner of a Seeker of Truth. But Jonx, I am so touched by your kindness in explaining to me how I should behave here on Forum8 that I am prepared to give you another chance. So here's my challenge again ... Have you ever heard the FatRat extol the achievements of the human mind? Have you ever heard him extol the virtues of human love and loyalty? Have you? Ever? Has he ever praised the love of a mother for her children?
Has he ever marvelled at the heroism of rescue workers?
Has he ever wondered at displays of love and courage? There are countless examples of almost superhuman courage and love reported every year. Has Rawat ever found himself humbled by the heroism and devotion of ordinary people to each other, and to life itself? Has he? Hmmm? Please try to recall specific places and dates when you heard Rawat praise our human capacity to love each other, and confessed himself humbled by the recurring displays of the greatness of our love for each other.
C'mon Jonx. Defend your Master by showing me the quotes and actions that demonstrate his ability to feel humbled by the power of human love. Show me the quotes that demonstrate how he feels humbled by the heroic love that ordinary people routinely display. Show me he understands that people can be heroes, without the benefit of his inspirational teaching and guidance. You can't, can you? You cannot answer me because you know that core of Rawat's preaching is that nothing at all matters except Devotion to Rawat. Of course you do know that's the core of his "message", don't you? I think all premies and exes and other interested parties are fully aware of that. And because we all know it just as well as you do, we can see you cannot honestly hope to respond to my challenge. But we also see that you presently lack the emotional and moral courage to admit the implications of that fact. To be fair, it's only human (if not especially spiritually advanced), to try to avoid the realisation that you have been actively supporting a worthless and vile con with your slavish devotion. Stick around. You can extricate yourself. Jonti
-- never a premie
Modified by Jonti at Thu, Mar 31, 2005, 08:41:30
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Look Jonti -- never been a premie. Your rude, arrogant, and provocative language warrants nothing from me. I don't have to defend myself or Maharaji from your ignorance, because your igorance defeats you before you get your tirades out of your mouth. Frankly pal I don't like you. Combine that with the fact that the opinion of someone such as yourself who has never received knowledge is next to valueless, we have no more to say. So sod off mate!
Cheers
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Well Jonx, since there is no such thing as "Knowledge" I'd say Jonti is as qualified as anyone to discuss "it." Kinda like being an expert on pookahs, eh?
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"sod off" = common English expression - considered semi obscene because of interpreted meaning (1) and comparative to "piss off" in the sense of "go away".
(1)sod = contraction of sodomite (probably not the origin for "sod off")
(2) sod = a turf, wet grass, - related to sodden i.e soaked through, wet
(3) sod = variant of sot - a drunk, someone halfwitted (pissed). In South West UK the term "he's a sod" or "daft sod" can mean someone who is untrustworthy or unreliable - frequently in a semi affectionate sense. In this terminology sod is interchangable with 'bugger' hence the confusion of sod and sodomite. Bugger off is actually more acceptable amongst the UK middleclass than is piss off - sod off although very much of working class usage has been 'adopted' for middle class use where it has gained an ironic inflection.
Seems our Jonx has spent time in the UK - but surely he's closer to the lotus feet than languishing in these damp islands that are so neglected by his master.
N
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... you cannot answer my questions, and that you concede my point?That's OK. But it's nothing to do with having been a premie or had whatever experience. It's simply a matter of logic -- the way things are. Even God cannot make a square circle. You'll probably dismiss this as patronising, that's up to you. But to argue I cannot say anything worthwhile about life with M or K is unwise. I understand the principle ... but the *same* principle yields that *you* cannot say anything worthwhile about life without M & K. But you do say stuff about life without M & K, don't you? Just like me, you find yourself perfectly able to think about stuff without (before!) actually doing it, and you find it is useful to use your mind like that. It's what a mind is for, surely?
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Short and to the point! A hallmark of most posts authored by you
Of course, you realize that using a word like "unwise" in this conversation is a waste of time since Jonx hasn't shown the slightest hint of understanding the meaning of the words, "wisdom" or "wise." A wise person would know when they have been beaten in a debate. Well, actually, I don't think he knows the meaning of "debate," either.
Man, it's hard to communicate with people that don't own a dictionary and refuse to accept a common definition for the words they are using. This, you will find (assuming it isn't already very old hat to you) is a common premie affliction. They prefer to play word games; twisting the meaning of "and" would be a favorite. I believe the main reason for this sophomoric activity is that their lord, who they love to quote, has an elementary school education. Actually, I'm not certain that he actually graduated.
Even worse, they prize ignorance above all else. Illogic would be a close number two. Dissembling..... well, it's pretty high on the list of fun premie activities, too.
"God" may not be able to make a square circle, but he (M) sure knows how to turn premies into mental pretzels!
Modified by NAR at Thu, Mar 31, 2005, 16:37:42
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